Please note: This transcript has been automatically generated.

Angela Rye: Y’all have not even seen, um, all of the layers of Kamala Devi Harris. You just haven’t.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: That’s right.

Angela Rye: That’s right. She is so fun and so brilliant. I think I’d tell these people to go to hell. Let her, let her make her decision in her own time. That’s right. How many times did Joe Biden run for president?

Like, shut up.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Hey, y’all, it’s Brittany. So, this past Sunday, August 9th, 2026, it marked 12 years since the murder of Michael Brown Jr. Michael was killed by Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson, who was never indicted or even remotely held accountable for taking Mike’s life. Mike was just a young man, 18 years old, a child, had just graduated from high school, and I remember the day that I watched his mother, Lesley McSpadden, cry out about just how hard she and Mike’s family and Mike’s father had worked to get him across that stage and into his future. I also remember the feeling as somebody who had worked in education for many years prior, including in my hometown of St.

Louis, and trained teachers that taught at the very high school where Mike Brown attended. I remember the deep, deep heartbreak and the punch to the gut in realizing that that diploma that Mike finally got was not bulletproof. I felt angry. I felt frustrated. I felt complicit. My first day in protest during the Ferguson Uprising was August 9th.

That afternoon, I, uh, went from Kansas City, where I was, back home to St. Louis, and I found myself standing in front of the Ferguson Police Department, not knowing exactly what to do, but knowing that I had to bear witness. And what we’ve all borne witness to over the last 12 years has been nothing short of earth-shaking.

We’ve seen people who we were told were unelectable become elected. Shout-out to Cori Bush. We’ve seen, uh, protests and power move from Ferguson to Palestine and back in between. We’ve seen people find connection globally who we were told would always be strangers and enemies. In that 12 years, we saw people write the books and sing the songs and make the films that prepared us for 2020 and the summer of our discontent.

A lot of folks may not know me from the Ferguson Uprising. That was 12 years ago. Some of you may not even remember what happened over those 400-plus days, which makes the Ferguson Uprising the longest sustained direct action campaign in this country’s history, longer than the Montgomery Bus Boycott.

There’s a forgetfulness that we’re all dealing with in this social media age, when AI is pushing us further, faster away from those things that we need to remember. But I hope you remember this, whether you know me from the Ferguson Uprising, whether you know Kayla Reed from the Ferguson Uprising, no matter whose name you know or don’t know, never, ever forget the name Mike Brown.

People argue all the time about who founded this modern-day movement for racial justice, and as far as I’m concerned, Mike Brown did. Sandra Bland did. Trayvon Martin did. Tamir Rice did. All of those who are fallen, whose names we can never forget, those are the founders of this movement, and for them, we have to remain undistracted.

On the show today, we have Native Land co-host and commentator, Angela Rye, as well as our group chat bestie, Dr. Brittney Cooper, joining us once again for Untrending News. We’ll be right back. Now that we just went through some revealing primaries, and we’re under three months away from the midterms, I wanted to call up one of the people that I like talking elections with the most, my sis, your sis, Angela Rye.

She knows politics. She was executive director and general counsel to the Congressional Black Caucus during the 112th Congress, where she helped shape the caucus’s legislative and political strategy from the inside, which means when she talks about the halls of power, she’s not just speculating. She knows what she’s talking about.

She’s telling you what she’s seen in the room, and since then she’s built Impact Strategies, a firm that influences policy and connects civil rights organizations with resource partners. She also founded State of the People, a coalition that took her on a multi-city tour through communities, uh, the electoral map often tends to forget.

And you may know her as the co-host of the Native Land pod. She’s a lawyer, a strategist, one of the machetes, and one of the sharpest read-the-room voices left in politics today. My girl, Angela Rye, welcome to Undistracted.

Angela Rye: Thank you. Thank you so much- … Brit. It’s so good to be with you as always.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: So, listen, we ask everybody before we get started, how are you doing today in three words?

Angela Rye: Ooh. Uh, carrying a lot.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Carrying a lot- Yeah … is real, and we know you carry a lot for a whole lot of people, so we appreciate you making the time. Because you don’t just talk about it, you are about it. So, let’s, let’s start big picture. I want your opinion. We just went through this series of primaries. There were some losses that hit really hard.

We talked about our friend Cori Bush losing her second bid to take back her House seat, but there were a lot of encouraging victories. We saw, uh, higher Democratic turnout, uh, in primaries than in Republican primaries. People are absolutely motivated. There are some important progressive candidates that won, like Dr.

Abdul in Michigan, Justin Pearson in Tennessee. Can you put in perspective for our community here at Undistracted, what you think is a be- like what’s the best case, the realistic case- for what’s gonna happen in November? Mm. Best case and realistic.

Angela Rye: Um, well let me start with worst case. I know that wasn’t part of the question, but let’s just start there-

so we just get it out the way.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Uh-huh.

Angela Rye: Um, we are living under a fascist regime, and I think- Mm-hmm … that we say that a lot, but we don’t always understand the signs. Um- Mm-hmm. There’s, there’s someone who is absolutely fascinated with authoritarian leaders, and to that end, has joked about and even put on a hat that says Trump 2028.

Um, he has done the work, laid the groundwork- Yeah … of trying to, uh, federalize elections. We all know they’re state run. There was a time, Brit, when we used to say, we as Black folks used to say, “Well, at least we got the feds. The feds will come in and make sure that the states are cooperating- Right … and protecting our civil and human rights.”

Now we like, “Please don’t go to the feds.” What is the state talking about? We didn’t used to be states rights people. Uh-huh. Now we like, “States rights.” Funny how the tables turn. Uh-huh.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I be so glad I live in Maryland, child. Yeah.

Angela Rye: Right. Shout out to Wes and Don. And so the thing- Yeah … that I would say, um, is that we could creep up on elections that have ICE officers outside- Mm-hmm

of polling locations, people ready to, um, you know, criminalize the good work that so many of our friends who do voting rights work are doing. Mm-hmm. Um, the Election Protection Hotline may reach an all-time high for the calls they receive. Now, hopefully that doesn’t happen, in the spirit of John Lewis. But I think that we would be foolish not to prepare as if it would happen.

Mm-hmm. So just as a normal call to action, we do that on our show all the time. Yeah. Is I would just say for every lawyer that has any inkling of respect for democracy and protecting the rights our ancestors fought for- Mm-hmm … volunteer as, um, poll watchers, as Election Protection Hotline answerers, as text respond- whatever you can do- Mm-hmm

make sure that you are ready to do that thing. And then I’ll say, um, on the mid-level. On the mid-level, you know, Democrats, uh, who are in their right minds take over and win the House, um, or the

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Senate. That’s an important caveat, the Democrats who are in their right minds. We have to make that caveat, but keep going.

Angela Rye: Yes, we do. And then perhaps the Senate, because what that does is, as we all know and are feeling the weight of a hemorrhage-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah …

Angela Rye: it will stop the hemorrhage. Yeah. It won’t do much more than that. And I also think it, it is so important we’re telling people the truth about that, ’cause I think people are being told- Mm-hmm

like, “Oh, go to the midterms. You vote in the midterms, everything gonna change.” Mm-hmm. “It’s gonna be great.” Mm-hmm. This fool is still gonna be in office for two more years- Hello … at least. So let’s just level set that once again, it is a harm reduction strategy to just win- Mm-hmm … the, for the Democrats to just win the, the midterm elections and, and become the majority- Mm-hmm

in the House and the Senate. Mm-hmm. And the highest and best possible outcome that I could see, they take over the House and the Senate, and people- Okay … find courage Um, nuts and ovaries, and they impeach and remove this bastard. That would be-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Come on. We can hope and pray.

Angela Rye: I mean, that’s all I got. Working at it.

And then, you know, maybe we win some other, um, gubernatorial races, of course. Yeah. Um, and th- maybe it’s a landslide, you know, election where people are like, oh, they got a two-thirds majority, and then there’s some constitutional amendments and stuff that could happen. I don’t know. It still would take three-fourths to ratify, but- Yeah

alas, here we are. And then maybe we could also hold off some Supreme Court seats, because if he’s still in office- Now wouldn’t

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: that be

Dr. Brittney Cooper: nice?

Angela Rye: You know, and these, these people start talking about retiring or resigning.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: But what you’re talking about when it comes to the hopeful outcome, even the realistic outcome, has to do with this shift to the left that we’re seeing from Americans, not just people who voted MAGA and are now regretting it, but people who are like, “I want more from this government, and I need to see progress, um, and promises kept.”

So, there’s a study that we’ve both looked at going around from our friends at, uh, the National Coalition on Black Civic Participation that I know caught both of our attention. There’s a lot in there, but I wanna get your read on it. So, it’s tracking Black women, uh, on a lot of things, but here’s what I find interesting.

There’s, uh, information that shows that a l- a growing group of Black women are identifying as progressives, now 35%, especially younger women, women who have, um, higher education levels, and that of that 35% of Black women that identify as progressives, that a number of them d- identify as Democratic socialists.

Now, the internet has been arguing about Democratic socialists versus liberals the entire time, but that number has increased since the 2024 election, when Black women identified as progressives about a quarter of the time. We obviously just watched Janeese Lewis George win the Democratic mayoral primary in DC, running explicitly as a Democratic socialist with support from the Working Families Party.

People like Zohran, I mean, they’re talking about him like he’s Superman. I’m just curious, like, if Black women are the canary in the coal mine, and we’re often the first indicator of where the electorate is actually moving, do you think that this is an indication of where the public is shifting such that we could see some of those outcomes you’re talking about in the midterms?

Angela Rye: You wanna know the truth?

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Angela Rye: Black people have always been progressive. We can look at, um, the politics of Fannie Lou Hamer, of Julian Bond, of John Lewis- Jesse

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Jackson.

Angela Rye: I’m getting there. You know, I mean, his whole- Mm-hmm … 1984 platform is Bernie Sanders’ platform, but make it white, whitewashed. That’s right.

You know? Mm-hmm. So, I just think, like, it’s ridiculous. I shouldn’t say it’s ridiculous. It is hard for me to hear these conversations about there’s a shift to progressivism- Mm … when I think that the real, um, calculation has been what is, what… How should our politics look right now for us to survive?

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Yeah.

Angela Rye: And I think if you’re in survival mode, you, um, make, uh, concessions and exceptions and negotiate what are the things- Mm-hmm … that you’re willing to lay aside- Mm-hmm … to make it. Mm-hmm. And so what I think- Mm-hmm … you’re really seeing is a shift towards we deserve more than just to survive.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Angela Rye: We deserve for our politics and our political leaders and our elected officials to see us and serve us and meet our needs and demands.

And so- Yeah … that is being packaged differently. And, and what I wanna commend these candidates for is they’re also taking bolder stances. They are meeting- Mm-hmm … the constituents where they are. That’s right. It’s not they’re dragging the constituents over to where they are. It’s like, “Oh, what do you actually need?”

And I’ll tell you, Brit, I had this really, um, interesting but frustrating conversation with a member of Congress who shall remain nameless ’cause I love him to death. Um, but we were in Tunica this past weekend- Mm-hmm … and I was telling him that while we were, you know, on the State of the People Tour, Power Tour, we kept hearing from people that…

And it was hard for me because, you know, my whole professional adult life has been in politics, but they kept saying, you know, “No matter who I vote for or when I vote, my circumstances- Yeah … don’t change.”

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Angela Rye: And I’m like, “But why? We did this and this. What about this?” And people are saying, “I hear what you’re saying, but I haven’t felt- Mm

that impact personally.” It’s not a material difference. So maybe there’s a slight shift, things are a little bit better for a little while, and then there’s a dip-off. Mm-hmm. And even that roller coaster is emotionally, mentally, and economically- Yeah … unsettling for people. That’s right. So when I was explaining this to this member, he said but when Joe Biden was in office, a family of four got $5,000.

And I was like, “But what if they’re not a family of four?” Mm-hmm. And he was like, “Well, if they were one, they got $1,000.” I said, “What if they were incarcerated when the $1,000 came?” Right? Like, there are these other caveats- Yeah … that we’re not always thinking through. And what if $1,000 only helps you make it another month?

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Angela Rye: If I’m honest, for me too often that’s a day and a half. You know what I’m saying? Yeah. Like- Yeah. Yeah … help me, Jesus. But I’m like, you gotta, like, really think about where people are and what they need, and it’s so hard. I can’t imagine, ’cause I know for me it’s hard to hear. Mm-hmm. For someone who’s spent their life in public service and you know you’re doing the best you can, and it’s not enough to meet the needs of your people or constituents who are saying, “This still isn’t sufficient for me,” he couldn’t hear it.

And I was like- Mm-hmm … you’re trying to assign a macro level answer to a micro level condition. Mm-hmm. And sometimes those things don’t meld. Mm. We have to be real about that. And what we keep doing with Black folks is saying, um, “Just wait till November. Wait till we take back the majority.” Yeah. “Wait till…”

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Angela Rye: And it’s like, no, no, no. Walk out what we- What

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: if I can’t make it to November, baby?

Angela Rye: We… Right. So g- we’re trying to make it- Yeah … day to day, but when we get to November, number one, y’all don’t take over in November. It’s January. Let’s start there. Mm-hmm. So you want them to get to November, give you another two months, and then what is your plan and your strategy for when you become the majority?

And what does that- Yeah … mean for individual A or B or C? If they’re in Mississippi or Michigan, what does that mean, and how does their material condition change? Those are tough conversations, but we’ve got to have them, or the other statistic or the other data point that you know about from the Black Women’s Roundtable Study-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm

Angela Rye: is people will drop off. They will disengage.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: They will.

Angela Rye: I’m just saying.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: They will. Even the most reliable blocks will disengage because you can’t blame people for disengaging in a system that keeps breaking its promises. Yeah. And I think, I think what you identify is bigger than any label, right? Because perhaps Black women haven’t always called ourselves progressive, but we’ve certainly held progressive ideals, progressive beliefs.

Um, and these labels I think, frankly, are tripping people up, right? Yeah. So-

Angela Rye: I agree, Brit … I’m

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: thinking about Zohran and Janeesee who identify as Democratic socialists. They’re also supported by the Working Families Party. Shout out to our friend Mo Mitchell- Yes … who is building a party for working class people, right?

Mm-hmm. And they’re like, “We’re not Democrats, we’re not Republicans, we’re not Democratic socialists. We’re not trying to recruit you to a political ideology. We are trying to make sure that there is space for working class people to be heard and elect the people who will serve them.” So that, that’s one set of labels or non-labels.

And then I think about m- Baltimore Mayor Brandon Scott, right? Who you can like pop up on, on Twee- on Twitter, on Threads, and say, “Hey, here’s a pothole on my street,” and it will get filled- That’s right … in a day, right? He doesn’t identify as a Democratic socialist. Dr. Abdul El-Sayed in, in Michigan doesn’t identify as a Democratic socialist.

So here are all of these labels that people are arguing about online, and this, this thing that people are doing where they’re saying, “Are you DSA or not?” As a, as a qualifying or disqualifying question doesn’t seem to actually capture what’s happening and what people are asking for. So what do you think more established Democrats are missing when they’re caught up in who belongs to the party and who doesn’t, who calls themselves DSA and who doesn’t?

Angela Rye: You know, um, I think that when, when we, when we get caught up in the labels, there are a number of things that happen, and one of them is we don’t see how close together we are. Mm-hmm. So if you agree with somebody 80, 85% of the time, what are we really actually talking about? One of my other favorite moments is there was a, a panel, um, the closing member forum I was, um, I was moderating, and Congressman Clyburn and Congressman Thompson are on this panel.

And Congressman Thompson, so people understand, um, came up in SNCC. He was mentored by Fannie Lou Hamer.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yep.

Angela Rye: Um, he is absolutely progressive in ways that some people would be shocked to hear about members- Mm-hmm … of Congress in the South being, right? So, let’s do the labels. Congressman Clyburn came up in NAACP.

He- Mm-hmm … and this is the NAACP of, “Dr. King, you’re going too far,” right?

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Angela Rye: He, um, was conditioned under, you know, the non-violent movement, and, um, still protesting. Went to jail for protesting, no less, but you know, that’s where he met Miss Emily. They shared a sandwich. They’ve been, you know, they were lovebirds ever since.

Locked in. Married 50 some years, right? And so, but I’m saying that to say there were two different pathways that they both took to get to the same end goal, which is freedom and liberation for Black people. Congressman Thompson and Mr. Clyburn are very close friends.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Angela Rye: And they couldn’t disagree more most times on how to get to the end goal.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm.

Angela Rye: Um, but they always, on a final passage of a bill that’s gonna help us, they are locked in. Yeah. What I fear is we’re getting to this era, particularly because of social media echo chambers that help us- Mm-hmm … to thrive in this nonsense, is everybody’s gotta get to the end goal the same way, otherwise you cancel

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah

Angela Rye: it’s bad.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Angela Rye: And it’s dumb. Yeah. It’s like no, we actually need a inside game. We actually need an outside game. We actually need the agitators and the advocates. Yeah. So, I love that about them, and they d- again, they don’t always agree. But they use the instruction they had, the, the environments where they come from, the demographics of their districts to guide- Yeah

how they respond.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Angela Rye: And that’s okay. So, the point is progress is progressivism. Yeah.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah. I think this is so important because the flattening that social media has done of people and their work-

Angela Rye: Yeah …

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: gets people confused as to how we made the gains that we’re fighting to protect now, and therefore how we study those blueprints to make even more gains.

Um, and it’s easy to catch a cut-off moment of a press conference and say, “That person is done for me,” um, and miss all of the other stuff that they’ve done, all the strategic work, all of the discipline, all of the, all of the stuff that has to happen in legislative bodies in particular, and you know this well, to make bills move.

I’m really glad that you, that you shared that moment ’cause it’s, it’s something that a lot of people don’t see, and I, I love our Undistracted community because they’re always trying to wrestle with the nuance. Yes. And that’s, that’s the nuance that p- we don’t have space for online. But I wanna bring something else up about these labels.

Um, so you know, we had, uh, we had our friend Nikole Hannah-Jones on, founder of the 1619 Project. We had her here on the podcast a few weeks ago. Um, and she looks at some on the left who are trying to build a class-focused politic while staying race-blind, and I think- Mm … this is part of the reason why some people are like, “I have progressive politics, but I ain’t gonna call myself a progressive ’cause all the progressives I see keep saying, ‘No, it’s class, not race, silly,’ and then I’m sitting here as a Black woman, one of the thr- 600,000 without a job saying, ‘Well, I thought, I thought it was both and then some.'”

Um, she argues that it’s not possible for that to be successful because it flattens the ways that some racial and ethnic groups need more, and are owed more, clearly, by this country than others, and that it leaves society really vulnerable for the other side to deepen our racial divisions instead of for us to work across those lines.

And she thinks that, um, that that’s why we’ve never had a really successful solely class-based movement in this country. And I really think that that’s worth sitting with, because there’s a real risk right now of erasing leftists of color from the conversation, right? Frantz Fanon, Fred Hampton existed in the ’60s, right?

And a lot of what gets credited to Bernie Sanders, as we said, was Jesse Jackson’s platform- Absolutely … 40 years before Bernie said it. So truly left politics in this country has deep Black roots. I’m curious how you make sure that we don’t flatten Black thought and leadership on the left, um, uh, both as we critique a, a white left that wants to remain race-blind, and as we make sure we make real collective progress.

Angela Rye: I think that you can’t truly be progressive without color consciousness. I just, I just think you racist. You know? And seriously, and just upholding

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: racist- That, that’s, that, that’s the title of the episode, I Just Think You Racist.

Angela Rye: R- like, it’s just like- With Angela Rye. Yeah … you, like, help me understand what people-centered movement erases any part of their humanity.

Like, it… You, you sound like a fascist too at this point. Now, I got a mayor that does this, Brit.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Mm.

Angela Rye: I have a white woman mayor. Mm. I mean, I ain’t even gonna hold, I ain’t even gonna hold her. They have a white woman mayor in Seattle that beat the Black man who I’ve known my entire life.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Mm-hmm.

Angela Rye: So yeah, I got…

Let’s acknowledge, I’m getting my… Just so you clear, there is a bias there. Um- But like, I’m watching her run over Black people over and over again. She got elected- Mm-hmm … under Working Families. Me and Mo fight about this all the time. Um, but she, she got elected under a Working Families Party banner, and I don’t know how she was even able to hold that.

Mm-hmm. Because she’s not looking out for working families. Mm-hmm. And she’s not looking out for people who support a working families platform who are people of color. Mm. She fired a Black woman on maternity leave, you must be sensitive to this, two weeks before she gave birth.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Now, you know how I feel about that.

Angela Rye: Okay. And then you got, um, her going after someone who was running City Light, that’s not a Black woman, but she was supported by 6,000 City Light employees. I think that a lot of people hide under the banner of progressive when they have no experience.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm.

Angela Rye: And I also think that because it’s like, “Oh, what’s the shortest way- Interesting

I can get to the top of a ticket?”

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Hmm.

Angela Rye: Right? Um, and so she’s one of those. Hmm. And everybody that says they’re progressive don’t deserve to be able to hold that banner. It’s just, it just is what it is. Hmm. And so I’m watching racist Katie do all this and cut up, and I’m watching it happen in other parts of the country.

People who have said that they are progressive, but when you look at their campaign teams, including Bernie, where are the Black contractors? Where are the Black vendors? Where are the Black staff? Hmm. You don’t wanna work… You don’t hire Black people on your team. How many s- Black staffers does Bernie got in his Senate office?

So, like, at some point- That’s a fair question … we gotta acknowledge your progressivism is really just liberalism.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Hmm. ‘

Angela Rye: Cause you want more space to be m- be white.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Hmm. And so

Angela Rye: be white liberally, but don’t call it progressive.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: To be white, and to be white in a way, to your point, that dismisses people’s humanity and lived experience,

Angela Rye: right?

Yeah. The other one is Jill Stein Because she gets- Oh, Lord … she gets to hold that she’s progressive. Mm. Let me tell you how racist Jill Stein is. She went on this podcast with this heifer that used to be a city council member here and got recalled. I believe she got recalled. Either there was a recall effort or she got recalled.

Either way, they wanted her up out of here. She just ran against, um, Adam Smith- Another heifer, child … and got her block knocked off. She got beat so bad.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yikes.

Angela Rye: But Jill Stein went on this heifer’s podcast and gonna say that I’m a Black face in a high place. Whoa. Why do you even feel like you can say that out your mouth?

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Hold on, Jilly. Now, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, ’cause you need to know how to play your position. Jill, though, for me, is a reminder of what you’re talking about. Yeah. I wouldn’t say across the board it’s easier to be a progressive, but there are some people I think who realize it can be a fast bullet to stardom, which can mean money, coverage, et cetera.

There’s a way to ride that bullet train to progressive stardom by only spouting ideals and never having actually had to build anything, right? Certainly not build anything in coalition with anybody that’s judged by outcomes for people, and that’s not true of everybody, right? Which is why I think I look at Brandon and Zohran, and I’m grateful because they’re showing it’s possible to have a progressive politic and to produce results, right?

Mm-hmm. Like, I, he said something about, Zohran, I think they’re, they’re using some kind of technology to pull heat from parts of the city s- and cool the subway stations. And the best response I saw to that thread was, “That was possible the whole time?” Mm-hmm. Like, people who are oriented toward results, I frankly don’t care what you call yourself, progressive, liberal, leftist, uh, democratic socialist.

I could care less as long as you stand for the right values and you are actually getting shit done for people. Because the circumstances are dire, especially when we talk about working-class people, but for all of us- Yeah … who are but a paycheck or two away from dealing with this. We’ve only got a few minutes left, but I wanna point to your, your work with State of the People, and the incredible team and communities that came together on that Power Tour and that still come together around State of the People, because it took conversations on the road to, uh, communities that have essentially been disappeared from the electoral map.

Parties act like they don’t exist, but there are people who are living in places where the water grids are, um, at risk, where the power grids are very, very stressed, exactly what we’re seeing in Puerto Rico right now. And in those places, you said, “What are we gonna do if the power grid fails? What are we going to do if you can’t get on your, on your phone, or charge your car, or put gas in your car to get to a safe location?

What are you going to do if everything’s shut down and you can’t feed your family?” How is visiting those places and having those conversations and simulations and preparation moments help you think about what politicians actually need to offer?

Angela Rye: And I, you know what, Brit, I love that question because that is exactly the point.

Yeah. And I think that on the other side of this November election, the thing I neglected to say earlier, is worst case, all of the things that took place and were, um, signed into law- Mm-hmm … through HR 1 will come to pass. They purposely set the deadline for after the November election, so Republicans- Mm-hmm

would not experience the consequences of their horrific actions by voting for that bill. Mm-hmm. So we talk about Medicare cuts, Medicaid cuts, further SNAP benefit cuts. We’re seeing those happen all across the country right now, especially- Yeah … in the South. But what has to happen in those moments, is people of good will have to come together to meet the needs of community.

Oh, yeah. Hopefully, that is led and orchestrated by our elected officials. But if it is not, we cannot sit idly by- That’s right … and wait for that to happen. So I would suggest that people understand, even if you need to, uh, you know, get Chad or one of your AI friends to tell you what was in the bill and what is going to come to pass- Mm-hmm

so that you know how to meet the need. Mm-hmm. Um, and it’s whatever you feel like you’re called to do, and that’s the- Yeah … other important thing. Like, we can’t do everything, Brit. If I knew how to stand up a emergency response thing, I would. I- that’s not my core competency.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Angela Rye: My core competency is like, “Okay, who could do this?

Who could do this?” And then bring everybody together.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Mm-hmm.

Angela Rye: But that’s, I, I’m too scattered and ADD to be like, “Okay, I’ma sit down and meticulously put together every single aspect of this thing.”

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: But that’s why we call you Chief of Staff to the Blacks, ’cause you don’t have to put it all together. You bring the people together who can do it.

Angela Rye: Yeah. Well, thank you. I don’t love that title, but I clearly, clearly it’s not going anywhere. But I think that the main thing, Brit, I would say right now is, we continue to ask people what they need. And we continue to ask ourselves how we can meet the need. Mutual aid- Mm … societies did not start even with the Black Panther Party.

They started during slavery. Right. That’s right. They were mutual aid societies. They took care of everything from bereavement to insurance- Mm-hmm … to food. Mm-hmm. And I think that we have to get to the point where we remember our original calling, our original mission is always to love our neighbor as ourselves.

Mm-hmm. And we can’t do that if we’re watching somebody go hungry or watching somebody’s child incarcerated, and we don’t do our- That’s right … very best to help them figure out what the next steps are. Watch somebody who’s battling addiction, or watch someone who doesn’t have clothes, or watch someone who’s underemployed or completely unemployed.

All of the- That’s right … or the, our, for our kids to not be able to learn their history. All of those things matter. What Nikole, you brought up Nikole earlier, what she’s built with her, um, freedom schools, I believe that’s what it was- Yeah … the freedom school?

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Angela Rye: In Iowa is teaching- Mm … kids about our history where she knows they’ve- Mm-hmm

been starved of that history in classroom.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Angela Rye: That’s a form of mutual aid. And that’s also

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: what we do at CDF Freedom Schools. That is mutual

Angela Rye: aid. Absolutely. Absolutely right. Absolutely. Yep. And so it’s getting- Yep … back to what we know, to who we are, and to never abandoning that mission. We don’t need legislation to do that.

We should be doing that nonstop, and that’s what I want for our people. If there was a closing ask, y’all, let’s please stop moving from crisis to crisis. We know the crisis will come, and we know that we sh- have every right to be our best selves, to teach our children, to s- to support our elders, no matter what crisis is coming.

That we should never let that break down again. That’s my ask.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah. Yeah. That is an important ask. Okay, before I let you go. Mm-hmm. We’ve talked the Office of Citizen, we’ve talked local politics. There’s clearly a presidential race coming in 2028, and I have to get your thoughts on Vice President Harris.

There’s a real contingent of people who think that her running again would be, quote, this is not my words, it’s theirs, “humiliating for her and for the country.” There’s definitely some, like, keep her in her place energy behind a lot of that. Mm-hmm. Um, especially considering that there’s a field, field of, like, 80 bajillion Gavins and Joshes lining up to run, but she was actually the vice president.

Where do you fall down on, on this?

Angela Rye: I think I tell these people to go to hell. Like, I think, um… Seriously, like, let her, let her make her decision in her own time. That’s right. How many times did Joe Biden win for, run for president? Like, shut up, number one. A million. Yeah. Like, I’m just like, “Shut up.” Number two, um, the thing that I would encourage, um, our sister to do-

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Mm-hmm

Angela Rye: is to deepen into her somebodiness and- Yeah … into who she is. Y’all have not even seen, um, all of the layers of Kamala Devi Harris. You just got- That’s right. That’s right … she is so fun and so brilliant. Um- Yeah … she got a clap back, but she also got compassion, you know? She does. Yeah. She is, um, brilliant and she’s also bold.

You know, I- Yeah … could keep the alliteration going, but you understand what I’m saying. Um-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: And much more bold than I think, to keep the alliteration going, the Biden era-

Angela Rye: Yeah …

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: showed people.

Angela Rye: Yeah. And I think that if people get the opportunity to see who she really is, I want all of these folks to keep an open mind, ’cause there’s a lot of time- Mm-hmm

between November and what happens in November- Absolutely … and 2028. And I think the person- Mm-hmm … who will have the most successful goal will not just be trying to produce an anti-Trump agenda, um, and, you know- Yeah … trying to talk about what, you know, how they’re not him. They will also proactively produce an agenda to meet the needs, the desires, the demands, um, and to solve the harm and the hurt of the people.

And whoever- Absolutely … can do that is g- who’s gonna, I think, be on the ticket.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Shout out to the entire spectrum of Black thought, Black leadership, Black lived experience that will be on display during that primary. Because when Black people are heard, everybody benefits. Period. And if there’s nothing else anybody learns from Undistracted, y’all definitely know that.

Yes. Angela Rye, thank you for joining us on Undistracted. We’ll definitely have you back real soon, ’cause you got the inside scoop and we always need it.

Angela Rye: Love you, sis. I love you. I don’t know how inside it is. They might’ve kicked me out after this episode, but we’ll see.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: We’ll take you over here if they kick you out.

You can stay with me.

Angela Rye: Girl, I’m already with you, girl. Hug my nephews.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I will. I love you.

Angela Rye: Love you, too.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: All right, y’all. I’m joined once again by my friend and yours, our Group Chat regular, bestie, author, and gender and women’s studies professor, Dr. Brittney Coop. Coop, what’s up?

Dr. Brittney Cooper: What’s up?

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Okay, so we got a lot to talk about today.

First, we need to talk about this water crisis in Puerto Rico. For those who have not been following, here’s what’s happening. For almost 130 days, Puerto Rico has been experiencing acute water shortages, with much of the island’s population without safe or steady drinking water. So, to address this, Puerto Rico is rationing water for nearly 200,000 people on a rotating schedule that leaves most people without running water for 48 hours at a time, Coop.

That’s two days. Two days. Reporting des- I’m, I… Have mercy, Jesus. Reporting describes residents as hauling jugs up apartment stairs in summer heat, record summer heat, some going over a week without water before rationing was even formally announced. Mm. This is, of course, affecting communities in parts of San Juan and neighborhoods in Carolina, Juncos, Gurabo, Loiza, and it’s happening partly because of a drought, but let’s be clear, it’s also happening because of crumbling infrastructure.

Roughly 59% of all treated water in Puerto Rico is lost before it ever even reaches residents through leaks and faulty meters, falling pipes, and more than half of the island’s drinking water supply has been lost over the, over the last 19 years. So, if you’re learning about this for the first time, you’re probably not alone, which is very different from the coverage that might be happening if, say, this water crisis were in Denver or Sacramento or, you know, Cedar Rapids.

But just like crises, uh, in those parts of the country, Puerto Rico’s crisis is an American issue. Don’t forget, this country colonized the people. They’re Americans, okay? Um, and whether or not that should be is a case for Puerto Ricans to make for themselves. If they want their land back, we should give it back.

But in the meantime, we are responsible for their infrastructure and their water. This requires financial approval from a US governing board called the Financial Oversight and Management Board, which has reportedly held up infrastructure improvements for a whole lot of years. Coop, this is terrifying.

I’m curious what your take is on what it’s going to take for mainland US to finally and fully acknowledge that we cannot keep treating our Puerto Rican siblings like this, like this little kid who needs management, and then also refuse to manage the situation. Like, those two don’t go together

Dr. Brittney Cooper: They do not go together.

I just wanna remind people of the, um, the, um, infamous image of Donald Trump tossing paper towels out- Them damn

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: paper towels!

Dr. Brittney Cooper: This is from the Hurricane Maria era from 2017. Mm. That was one of the most recent pretip- precipitating events that intensified this, this many decades long structural disinvestment.

Yes. So we have a p- president who is very intent upon treating Puerto Rican people like a colony rather than the more sort of, uh, liberal gloss that tends to happen when you have more liberal politicians in office.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Hello.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: So it is about inducing structural misery, and so my heart goes out to Puerto Rican folk- Yeah

um, and to their family members who are here on the mainland who I know are deeply worried about them.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: And I also wanna note for people that this is already happening in… They’re, they’re doing a miniature version of it in the US. So this is when the president weaponizes FEMA and refuses to approve disaster relief funding in states that didn’t vote for him, or in communities that didn’t vote for him, right?

Also, let’s not forget that there are still Black communities around the country that exist in a veritable water crisis. Hello,

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Flint. Flint

Dr. Brittney Cooper: still has challenges with water. Newark still has challenges with water. And one of the things we’re seeing in a place like Newark, where there are immigrants dying in detention in Delaney Hall- Yeah

a detention facility there, all of this is related not only to a kind of structural callousness that’s about disregarding people of color- Yeah … it is also about a refusal to acknowledge climate change and recogn- So you know, you get that over against, for example, everyone’s beloved Mayor Zohran Mamdani saying, you know, earlier, uh, you know, yesterday, “We’re going to, you know, capture the heat in the subway stations- Yes

and use it to power the buildings in winter.” So, there are other options on how we could- There are options,

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: people …

Dr. Brittney Cooper: that we could be innovating, that we could be using this as an invitation to have a better response to climate change. But look, people- But

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: you gotta acknowledge climate change is happening first.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: I mean, exactly. And the, the other thing that I, that I worry about, I worry that Puerto Rico is not different for the president than Gaza. Which is to say- Hmm … I worry that part of what his desire is is simply to starve these people, to kill the, you know- Yeah … to, to induce the kind of misery that is unlivable, let me be very- Yeah

particular how I say it. Yeah. So that then what you have is just beautiful island territories- Nice waterfront property … that can be snapped up. That’s right. It’s disaster capitalism, as Naomi Klein called it. Mm-hmm. And I think that that’s the, he’s just doing a slower version of it because it’s an American territory, but, but it seems that that’s his, you know, maybe his ultimate kind of play.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I definitely would not put that past him, or to be clear, the oligarchs who control him. Come on. ‘Cause it was his son-in-law, I believe, who was the one who said Gaza would make nice waterfront property, and I’m sure that for the guy who thinks he’s a real estate tycoon even though he keeps going bankrupt, um, he would love to open Trump Hotel and Plaza Gaza, Trump Hotel and Plaza San Juan.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: San Juan.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: That is why you don’t see the kind of infrastructural investments that Puerto Rico has needed for two decades, right? It’s not like this water crisis is new. Right. This is just the latest manifestation of it. Yeah. And we were talking about- An island losing half of its water supply in under 20 years, that is a choice.

That is a choice of budgets, that is a choice of power hoarding, that is a choice of people who want, who would rather keep money in their pockets than serve people. You know, our Indigenous siblings say water is life, right? That’s, that’s what they remind us of all the time when they are out there stopping pipelines with their own bodies.

Water is life. This is a free resource. Yeah. And it got commodified by the people who bottle it, by the folks who trade it, by the folks who control the waterways. Yeah. And in doing so, we put- Yeah … people’s fates in the hands of folks who, whose only interest is their own bottom line. This is part of the reason why I am so glad that your friend and mine, One Bad Bunny, did not speak a lick of English- Come

Dr. Brittney Cooper: on.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Talk about it … during that Super Bowl halftime performance. That’s right.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: That’s right.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Because he needed to remind us with that cultural moment that the people deserve to control their own fates. And I was over there shaking my ass whether I understood it or not, okay? It was,

Dr. Brittney Cooper: it was epic. And low-key-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: It was epic

Dr. Brittney Cooper: this, this treatment of Puerto Rico is likely, this refusal to then address this crisis is probably retaliatory. Hello. Because this is an administration that governs based on grievance. And I also wanna say let us not forget that n- neighboring Cuba is also going through a similar kind of crisis. Not water- That’s right

but oil. That’s right. And so at some point we have to ask what these very Black and brown countries in the ocean just full of people who are melanated and look like us- Mm-hmm … and who keep being tr- you know, tr- you know, subjected to structural privation. Mm-hmm. Right? W- you know, what that is about, and so much of it is just simply about the US wanting to enforce- That’s right

its total domination on these folks.

Angela Rye: That’s right.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: That’s right. And we got, and we cannot keep exporting these people’s culture.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Come on.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: And investing in

Dr. Brittney Cooper: their lives. And then don’t even wanna feed ’em and give ’em water. Nah, come on.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Like, and make sure they have water. So you gonna keep the Mojito but you gonna let the Puerto Ricans go hungry and thirsty?

I got a problem with that. I- I got a problem with that …

Dr. Brittney Cooper: agree with you.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I also wanna shout out the Meteor’s newsletter because they p- uh, published a fantastic explainer, uh, this week, or last week rather, called 122 Days Living Without Water, that I think everybody should read, especially because that story includes a link, a number of links to organizations that are helpful in supporting and fighting this crisis.

So Coop, next up there’s news coming out of the military.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Mm.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: And y’all Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth- Mm. Mm … who reportedly is personally intervening to cancel the planned promotion of specific officers who Disproportionately happen to be women and/or Black. I know, I know, it must be a coincidence. Pete must not be doing that on purpose at all.

Wink, wink. These are people whose promotions were already approved by the relevant service promotion boards. His interference seems to be framing that these promotions are undeserving DEI hires, that they didn’t earn it. And while I know that some tend to callously cast aside anything that has to do with the military as less than important because of the atrocities absolutely committed by the nature of their work, and our complete and utter disgust with the military industrial complex in America and in the West, like, is this really a field where we want to achieve?

But it’s important to acknowledge that there are women in the Army, that there are Black folks in the Army, that there are people of color in the armed services. And having more women and more people of color in higher ranking positions in the military also helps prevent atrocities and creates more opportunities for the military to use its resources to aid humanitarian crises.

So, I don’t think we can just dismiss this out of hand. Coop, talk to me about this. How do we, how do we care, do we care about military advancement and, and why do you think it’s important, is it important to have more women and Black folks in positions of power and service?

Dr. Brittney Cooper: One, look, we don’t have to agree with every industry a person works in to say that Black people and Black women deserve the set of possibilities that are available to them.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: And we also have a limited historical understanding. If most of us look back even one generation in our families, somebody went into the military, and they didn’t do it because they- Hello … believed in the American war machine, they did it because they didn’t have the opportunity to for, to pay for college or to see, to see the planet, to see the, the world in any other kind of way.

This, the, the military heavily recruited in our communities. There was just one generation ago, you know, our uncles, our f- my father served in the military. My grandfather- Yeah … fought in World War II. Both grandfathers fought in World War II.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Right now my, my dad, because he was a bit of a rascal, was dishonorably discharged because one day he got bored-

and he just walked on home. He just decided he was tired of being there. I don’t blame him. And so I support this. They won’t. Right? But I am saying to our communities, you know, I just was having this conversation, and early in, in my career I did some organizing, um, with a good friend named Anuradha Bhagwati- Mm-hmm

who helped to found, uh, the Sexual Assault Survivors Network for Military Professionals. Mm. There are extreme degrees of sexual assault of women, of queer folks- Yes … of people of color in the military. Yes. We have to care about that. And, and my Black feminist stance is I care bla- about Black women wherever they are.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Wherever they are.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: And so if you’re in the middle of that war machine, but you, you know, um, there was… I, I didn’t get a chance to go this year, but there was a panel, uh, at the, at this gathering, uh, that happens in Martha’s Vineyard of theologians. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And one of the women who attended the panel talked about, um, needing to get approval from senior officers to, for the day and time of her fibroid surgery.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Like, male officers h- Mm … calling her doctors and scheduling her fibroid surgery. You know- Excuse me? … interacting with her doctors, right? Mm-hmm. Wild shit. Mm-hmm. So I’m saying that we have to care about what’s going on in the military because- That’s right … we live in a country that, that, that where, uh, with a government that in this moment idolizes the military, wants to- Mm-hmm

in- enact militarist ideas for our everyday lives.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: And wants this level of control over our bodies, but we can… Our job is not always… Look, we don’t have, w- we don’t have to agree to say you deserve s- conditions that are safe, that are non-exploitative. That’s right. You need to be able to advocate for yourself.

And low-key, many of us are here because our folks made the sacrifice to go- Yeah … into the military when they didn’t have other options. Yeah. And that was the way that generations of Black folks had mi- you know, middle class possibility.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: That’s right. As long as the armed services continue to intentionally target and recruit poor folks, Black folks- immigrants, people who are trying to find a way out and through and over and under, then we have to care about what happens to them.

Okay. And I especially wanna talk to my beloved fellow progressives and folks on the left who want to center ourselves so much exclusively in systems that we forget about the cost to human beings. So yes, we can talk about how problematic the military industrial complex is all day, and we should. We should have that conversation.

And there are human beings there. There are trans human beings there. There are queer human beings there. There are women there. There are Black folks there. There are people of color there, who, again, were intentionally targeted to sacrifice themselves for this country with the promise of some little, tiny piece of the American dream.

The houseless- houselessness crisis, the mental health crisis, the healthcare crisis among veterans is staggering. And for a country that claims to care about the patriotic, the folks who took up arms for this country are some of the worst treated. If that is not our problem, then we need to start over, right?

Like, the- we have completely lost the plot. Yeah. Like you, my grandfather was a veteran, um, and I recognize that the military in America has not only been weaponized abroad, it has been weaponized domestically. Yeah. Because sending Black men off to war with the promise of access to generational wealth, and when they came home they were denied because they didn’t get that GI Bill- Right

or they got some of the money, but couldn’t buy a house in that neighborhood where there was a restrictive covenant, or they, they- Okay … came home with so many needs that weren’t serviced at these segregated hospitals. Y’all The military is harming people at home, too, and it uses itself as a model for whatever it wants to dictate to the rest of the country.

So, we have to remember some of the very first attra- attacks on trans people under this administration were in the military. Yes. Some of the very first attacks on women, in the military. Some of the very first attacks on Black people and Black leadership, so-called DEI leadership- Mm-hmm … were about Black folks who were leading in the military.

So, like, yeah, Pete is a punk. Yes. Maybe that’s the title of the episode, Pete Is a Punk. I, I wanna roll my eyes every time somebody brings up his name. However, we’ve got our fellow human beings in those spaces that he controls, and we have to care.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: I am- Yeah … staunchly anti-militarist. I have been- Yeah

forever. I have- Same … lived through the violence of- Yeah … having a father come back from the military and having men in my family do, men in my community do extreme violence to me and my folks because of PTSD that they suffered during military service. So, what I’m talking about is not theoretical. Yeah.

And at the same time, Black women in particular deserve to have their brilliance in every place that they are.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: If everybody’s not well, then none of us are well. Mm-hmm. Which brings me to the WNBA.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Oh, my goodness.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: So, let’s talk sports. There’s a whole lot to talk about in the W, but at the center of, let’s say several growing controversies, um, but e- especially one growing controversy over transgender athlete eligibility.

Indiana Fever guard Sophie Cunningham, no relation, I wanna be clear, publicly opposed trans women competing in women’s sports last month, even though the league doesn’t actually have any trans players currently that we know of, so I don’t even know why she’s talking about it. But then the debate escalated, sh- uh, pretty dramatically, I would say, when two former NBA players, Enes Kanter Freedom and Royce White, both declared themselves eligible for the 2027 WNBA draft, saying they identify as women, basically as a veiled threat to the WNBA to clarify their eligibility rules or, you know, make fun of the entire situation.

So, it looks like all of this has sparked a task force and a team of, uh, team presidents and general managers to consider the eligibility question in the coming days. But this is wild to me, Coop, for a couple of reasons, not the least of which is that, uh, it seems that, uh, anything that bubbles up right now around the WNBA, unfortunately, is being influenced by new fans and new players who want to use this as a political proxy for some really evil things.

A- and I’m curious, like- Uh, not even just why the W has become a proxy for a culture war right now, because sports have always been a proxy for our most intractable issues in this country. But I’m really curious as to, like, why the NASCAR crowd decided that they wanted to come over to the W, ’cause that’s a league that was built by and

run by Black women. Sophie can’t even put no points on a board. Don’t you wanna be known for basketball and not- I mean- … your loud mouth?

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Mm. I mean, apparently not, not when you’re mediocre and there’s no- Oh … an attention-seeking, then it- Oh … turns out that just saying racist, sexist, transphobic shit will get you- Mm

very far. Mm. Um, listen, we, we are… I keep saying this because we have to keep saying it, we are also in a moment of the rabid return of patriarchy, and men are very bothered at all of the, the, the shine and the excitement around this last couple of years of WNBA- Mm-hmm … players. They feel like they are supposed to regulate every part of women’s lives, our athletics- Mm-hmm

in particular our bodies, our reproduction. Mm-hmm. And they use this idea of safety and protection. Now, these are people who routinely- Please … overlook rape culture, who routinely overlook their problematic homeboys and athleticism.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Oh, let’s be clear, one of these NBA players who has decided to declare himself eligible has been credibly accused of child and spousal abuse.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: My god. So,

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: like- It- … you need to go talk to that lady before you end up in jail, not the draft. I

Dr. Brittney Cooper: mean, come on, because the reality is that most pre- male predators are not the… It’s not trans men, it’s not trans people, it’s just good old straight-identified cisgender dudes who are doing the predation, right?

Mm. And so the idea- And

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: they’re proving our point right now …

Dr. Brittney Cooper: I mean, correct. You wanna come over and be in folks’ business and… Look, but it’s not separate from the desire to regulate women’s bodies and childbirth- Yeah … the desire to regulate women’s bodies and determine their sex and their gender. And mostly I wanna say, like, stay out of our business.

This has nothing to do with you. But the WNBA has been, particularly here in this last era, this last moment, very progressive about politics, very progressive about-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Extremely …

Dr. Brittney Cooper: you know, a- Mm-hmm … and really radically platform, and talking about, you know, Nolan Wells and, you know, other sorts-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yes …

Dr. Brittney Cooper: of issues. And so this is a desire to silence, to, uh, you know, to, uh, usurp control.

Uh, but these folks do not… You know, and look, and I also wanna say as a Black feminist that I am bothered by white girls who wanna invoke this white femininity standard, the same femininity standard that has made it impossible for women to get paid the kinda money that they should in the WNBA- There it is

because they have been seen as being less athletic and the weaker sex- There it is … and not credible athletes. And now you wanna invoke it so that you can get all these dudes running over here talking about, “We gotta protect our delicate white female flowers.” Hello. And low-key, that, that narrative is an invocation of violence.

In prior generations it got- That’s right … Black men lynched, and now they wanna weaponize that same kinda logic in order to come after trans women. We do not need- Yeah … violence to trans people so that white folks can sort of have an, an internal mind meld around their w- racist patriarchal domination- Listen

of everybody else. No

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: thank you. Listen, listen. In a world where Paige Bueckers exists-

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Come on …

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: you don’t have to be a Sophie Cunningham. You

Dr. Brittney Cooper: do not.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Like, I actually think that, like- You know, there’s something so beautiful about what has happened with the WNBA as it has blossomed and sprouted, as the, as the, the CBA agreement increased player pay- Yeah

as the attention and the televising of these games expanded, as the finals have been watched more and more, as All-Star Weekend has been watched and attended more and more. There’s something so beautiful about the fact that we can get out there and say everybody watches women’s sports, and the W is helping to prove it.

Yeah. I actually think it’s incredible that sports can be this unifying space where you find yourself sitting in the stands next to somebody that you never would’ve met otherwise, but y’all just love the way that homegirl puts up a, a 3-pointer. You just love the way that DiJonai enforces, right? You just like, there are so many things that pull us into this space of women’s sports and the WNBA, and there are women who painstakingly built this, who are now having to watch what they built be shadowed and shrouded by somebody who wants, as my friend Jemele Hill said to extend her 15 minutes of fame into 20, and as I’ll add, because she’s not that great on the court, so she’s gotta figure out a way to be, a, a way to be prominent off the court, right?

Yeah. I’m not even one of those people who’s like, “Just stick to sports,” blah, blah, blah. I love that the W has been a place of, of powerful activism and organizing, that those women over so many years have been using their platform for everything from queer rights to Black Lives Matter and so many thi- and, and women’s equal pay and so many things in between.

And I think it is deeply insulting that there are folks who have come around, for the first time ever and decided that this was going to be where they, uh, where they laid out all of their grievances with the rest of us for daring to build something that beautiful, daring to build something that invited them in in the first place, daring to build something that said, “I can love Diana Taurasi and Sue Bird just like I love Cheryl Miller and, uh, uh, and Angel Reese,” right?

That, like, that is a place of beauty, and if you would accept the invitation- Yeah … with the respect that it deserves, you can have fun here. Yes. You can kick it here. Yeah. You can enjoy it here. You can raise powerful little daughters here. You can raise strong sons who aren’t threatened by powerful women.

I love taking our sons to WNBA games. I want him to see women’s sports and to see women as his equals and to admire women and respect women and look up to them, because those are some bad ballers on the court.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Come on.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: So if you can’t come in here and respect the house that was built, then you can kindly exit to the left.

Like, you actually don’t, you don’t get to act like this in somebody else’s house. Come on. Somebody opened up the door for you, poured you some sweet tea or some lemonade, put you a plate in the microwave or the oven and said, “Hey, come on, sit down, have a seat, and have some of this joy with me,” and you don’t treat people like that when they invite you in they house.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Come on.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: So, in a world full of Paiges, be Paige, not Sophie. Who’s good at the game, and also good with our sisters. All right? All right. That has been our untrending news for this week. Coop, as always, I appreciate your brilliance and I appreciate you for always keeping it real in the group chat. We’ll see you real soon.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: My pleasure.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Look, like Angela says, sometimes you gotta tell them people to go to hell. And sometimes you gotta fill a pothole. Brandon Scott, Zohran Mamdani, hopefully Janeese Lewis George, these are some folks who are reminding us that politics is personal and it’s deeply local. We have to recognize that no matter what position we are electing people to, that they owe us something, and it’s our job in the office of citizen to hold them accountable to it.

So, politicians, whatever you’re running for, make sure you are listening to the people, cause they’ll tell you what they want, and if you don’t give it to them, there’s going to be hell to pay. You don’t want them to tell you to go to hell. You want them to tell you, “Hey, the pothole needs filling,” and then you gotta show up and do it.

Thanks for listening. Thanks for being, and most importantly, thanks for doing. I’m Brittany Packnett Cunningham. Let’s go get free.

Thanks for listening. Thanks for being. And most importantly, thanks for doing. I’m Brittany Packnett Cunningham. Let’s go get free

Our executive producers are Cindi Leive and myself, Brittany Packnett Cunningham.

Our producer at Collective Media is Douglas Forte with supervising producer Ryan Jones.

Our supervising producer at The Meteor is Taylor Hosking and artwork is by Bianca Alvarez.

This episode was produced with support from Liberation Ventures and The Meteor Fund.

You can follow me on all social media @mspackyetti and our incredible team @themeteor.