Please note: This transcript has been automatically generated.

 

Danielle Brooks: I think I struggle so much with masculinity and what that looks like and how they should carry they self and don’t cry-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm …

Danielle Brooks: and be hard and hold your feelings in. I just don’t like that at all. Yeah, yeah. Home should be soft-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah …

Danielle Brooks: and a pillow for them to l- rest their head. Like, it should be a cloud.

Mm-hmm. It should not be heavy and hard.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Danielle Brooks: You know what I’m saying? So that’s what I would want for young boys, you know, growing up now, having their father’s, um, shoulder to lean on in a, in a soft way, and I think that’s what this, this film hits on.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Hey, y’all. It’s Brittany. The other day, somebody asked me how I became such a good public speaker. That’s not me giving a humble brag, I swear to God. Thank you for the compliment. But what I told her was that I had a front row seat to the best oration, narrative, and storytelling work I’ve ever seen in the entire country every single Sunday when my daddy got up to preach.

Since then, my mother has become an ordained minister. My brother is also licensed to preach. I’m the only heathen in the family. But the point is this, I come from an oral and an aural tradition. My father taught liberation theology and Black church history, but every single Sunday, I would watch him stand up in front of hundreds, sometimes thousands of people, and weave together the kind of honesty and clarity and truth-telling and prophetic wisdom that people are aching for right now.

So frankly, I’m just an apple that never really fell off the tree if I’m halfway decent at this thing ever. And I think that we have to recognize, how important storytellers are to freedom work. The ways that we pass the word, the ways that we teach one another, the ways that we speak truth to power, all of it matters.

How well we do or don’t write the first draft of history matters. How we give people examples of power and blueprints to follow by making sure that those records are kept and those stories are told, all of that matters. Thank God for the storytellers. And remember, you don’t have to have a bunch of followers or have been sitting in the front of somebody’s church every Sunday or even have a pulpit of your own to be a storyteller.

Each of us has an important story to tell. Even more so, each of us have s- truth that we’re responsible to share, and all of us have people that are trying to listen to us. That’s why we gotta stay undistracted.

On the show today, the incomparable actress and entrepreneur Danielle Brooks, and a little old-school Untrending for y’all. Our guest today is the actress of the hour, the actress of our year, really, Danielle Brooks. After coming into the mainstream as Taystee on Orange Is the New Black, she earned a Tony nomination and a Grammy for playing Sofia in the Broadway revival of The Color Purple, and then absolutely smashed playing that role in the 2023 film adaptation, getting another Academy Award nomination for Best Supporting Actress.

And now she’s pulling up on us here at Undistracted as an executive producer. Okay, we see you with the EP title. And star of the film If I Go, Will They Miss Me? That showed at Sundance and all the festivals, and is now, uh, coming to theaters. It is about a struggling Black father-son relationship, and touches on a lot of the issues we talk about here on the pod.

Danielle.

Danielle Brooks: Brittany.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Welcome to Undistracted. Thanks for having me,

Danielle Brooks: sis. I’m so

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: glad to see you. I texted you, and I was like, “Would you ever do the pod?” And you were like, “Let’s pull up in person.”

Danielle Brooks: I got you. Let’s do it in person. We ain’t gonna be doing it on the, what you call the thing? Riverside. Riverside. You said ain’t no boxes.

Ain’t no Riverside over here.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: You said we sisters for real.

Danielle Brooks: That’s right. We show up for each other.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: And I appreciate it so much.

Danielle Brooks: Yes.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: So listen, we start every interview the same. How are you doing today in three words?

Danielle Brooks: Ooh, how am I doing today in three word- Um, what’s that song by Charlie Wilson? I’m blessed.

Oh. Yes. I’m blessed. De-stressed. There it is. That’s,

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: that’s

Danielle Brooks: my song. Okay. I feel blessed. I feel, um, in my element. Okay. So element- Yes … is my word. Element. Whatever, but I’m in my element. We feel you. I

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: get you.

Danielle Brooks: And I feel, mm, excited.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Ooh.

Danielle Brooks: Yes, I’m excited to share this movie with the world. Yeah. I really, really am.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I’m … I love that, and we’re gonna get into this movie, but I gotta go all the way back to the beginning. So you’re six years old.

Danielle Brooks: I’m six

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: years old. And you start acting in a church play. Yes. Okay? And as a fellow church play six-year-old actor-

Danielle Brooks: I love it …

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: these are the, these are the roots. These are the foundations, right?

That’s right. And then somewhere in your teen years you see a production of The Color Purple- Yeah … that you say changes the direction of your life. Take us there. Take us to that- Mm-hmm … church stage, and what you saw in that Color Purple performance that made me think, “This is what I’m supposed to do.”

Danielle Brooks: Yeah, so I did, I acted in church.

We did church plays all the time, watched church plays all the time. Yeah. Like, when Tyler Perry would come around. Listen- You know. I know you know … I don’t

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: think people realize that those of us who saw the Tyler Perry plays- Yeah … before the movie life, we experienced something powerful together. We

Danielle Brooks: really did.

Yeah. Those shows were incredible. Yeah. Like, you know, I was very inspired by The Color Purple, but let’s not leave out those actors that were in- That’s right … the Tyler Perry plays. Like-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Okay, with the mics coming right down here

Danielle Brooks: Come on, somebody. I mean, David Mann doing flips. Listen- Come on, like …

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: come on, Mr.

Brown

Danielle Brooks: Mr. Brown. Shout out to that whole family.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: Um, so yeah, I started out in church plays. Um, loved it. And then transitioned to, um, um, trying to take this on more seriously. Mm-hmm. So I went to a high school called the Governor’s School for Arts and Humanities, where I lived on campus for two years. I went there at 15, so I was out the house.

Mm. Gone. Uh, but I had, while I was there, applied to this program called Bravo on the Set that the network was doing. Mm-hmm. Bravo, the network, was doing, and they were like- This

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: was back when Bravo, like, it was, like, all West Wing reruns and Inside the Actors Studio.

Danielle Brooks: Yes. Yes. It was not, like… I don’t even think Housewives was really, I don’t think it was there.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: Like, I think they just had their 25th anniversary or something. It- so they- I’m aging myself, but anyway. So yeah, that wasn’t even a thing. But they were trying to, like, diversify, so they were like, “We’re gonna bring some kids of color-” “… like, to the New York for free and teach them about TV.” So that’s what they did.

And I got to take my dad, and- Yeah … we had, like, the weekend off, and my dad was like, “I know my child likes this theater stuff-” “… so let me put her in something.”

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Uh-huh.

Danielle Brooks: And, you know, at the time, there was no Black Broadway shows besides The Color Purple- Right … and/or Lion King, but that’s really about animals- Yeah

not about Black people. That color- Black people playing them, but okay. Mm-hmm. So it was one show, and it was Color Purple.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Danielle Brooks: So he took me to see that at 15, and it changed my life.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Wow.

Danielle Brooks: I saw opportunity. I saw this is a path that I can take. Yeah. This makes sense to me. They look like me. Yeah. Oh, my gosh, and they’re so professional.

I couldn’t believe it. I was like, “This is amazing.”

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Did you find yourself connecting with Miss Sofia then, or was that a relationship that developed later as you went on to play her?

Danielle Brooks: I definitely ar- like, was into Sofia at the time- Mm … ’cause there was just a presence about- Mm-hmm … the character. I think it was the totality of everyone, though.

Mm. It truly was seeing 20-plus Black people on a stage dancing, singing. Yeah. Literally, they were in a tree. I remember seeing LaChanze and Renée Goldsberry in a tree to start. Wow. “Hey, sister, what you gonna…” Like, I remember it vividly. It came to life. Yeah. It was like they went to Africa.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: I was like, “This is crazy.”

Yeah. You know? You go

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: all the way to Africa on this stage.

Danielle Brooks: Right. Yeah. We did playing in black boxes with just black boxes, and, like- Mm-hmm … you know, that was it. So to see that world, that was what made me say, “I gotta do this thing.”

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: Yeah. I,

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: once upon a time, I thought I was gonna study musical theater.

Danielle Brooks: Ooh, I love that. And

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: then I realized I didn’t love it enough to starve for the art. Uh-huh. So I let people like you take it- … all the way to the Academy Awards- Yes … and the Tonys, and doing all the things. But the first professional play I ever did was Once on This Island. Ooh. I played Little Ti Moune when I was in the fourth grade- How cute

at the St. Louis Repertory Theatre. We’ll see if we can find a photo somewhere of me in the pigtails. Oh,

Danielle Brooks: no.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: But I think that you’re right about the creation of these universes And then to know now that you’re on the other side of that and people are watching you create the universe-

Danielle Brooks: Yes …

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: and seeing what’s possible for them, what does that mean to you?

Danielle Brooks: Yes. To be EP-ing and to do all kinds- Yeah. I’m excited about this new phase of my life, my career. You know, I’ve been able, like you said so beautifully, to be able to c- accomplish so much. Yeah. Right? But I think I’m in this phase that I’m ready to be of service in a different way. You know, I definitely think what I do is of service as an actress, you know?

But I am now in a place where like, okay, I wanna do a monologue competition for kids- Mm … and give back that way. Mm. So I have a c- monologue competition called CCC Monologue, which stands for Century Cycles Continues, which is in honor of August Wilson- Wow … which he had the cycles. Yes,

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: indeed.

Danielle Brooks: Yep, the 10 cycle plays that he did.

Yes. But it’s so the kids- For every

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: decade of Black American life. That’s right. You know. Yeah. You already know.

Danielle Brooks: So the kids will come in and audition or do, you know, their monologue, which they still have to audition. Um, but it has to be from a playwright of color.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: So that’s why it’s called Century Cycles Continues.

Yeah. So they, we are putting these words of our people in their mouths- Yes … so they know that there are playwrights that write for them.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: That’s right.

Danielle Brooks: Uh, and we pass that on. So I’m doing that, and then with Black Women on Broadway, you know, an organization I started with two other women-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm …

Danielle Brooks: uh, where we are showing Black women that we can set our own tables, and we don’t have to wait- Mm

for the Tonys to acknowledge who we are. Uh, we will acknowledge it for each other. Yeah. You know what I’m saying? And we’re doing a lot of outreach with that with playwrights and h- having their words be read and, and explored, um, through workshops and, and, um, teaching them how to produce their own works and things like that.

Yeah. So I, I’m at that point. It’s like I’m ready to give, give, give. Yeah. Like, how much can I, like, put out in the world and create with people and just help people to develop more, um, of whatever they wanna do. Uh-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I love that so much because- I think especially over the last several years, we’ve watched this entertainment industry ebb and flow-

Danielle Brooks: Oh, for

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: sure

on how it feels about us- Yes … in particular. Right? So, like 2020 everybody was like, “Oh yeah, Black people exist.” Black

Danielle Brooks: people. “

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Let’s hire them.” Let’s put them on, yes. “Let’s put them on TV. Let’s put them on the stages,” and then they snatched it right back. Girl. ‘Cause it was always gonna be temporary. Temporary.

Let’s be clear. Yes. But this is, I mean, this is an industry built on judgment, right? Yes. About whether you fit for the role, about whether you’re right, about whether you got the right look, if you skinny enough, if you thick enough, if you dark enough- Mm-hmm … you light enough, all the things. I’m just curious how you stay grounded in your own worth- Mm

through all of that. That

Danielle Brooks: is such

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: a great question. Especially while you’re building it for helping other people find theirs.

Danielle Brooks: Yeah. I, that’s some God work. Yeah. I think that’s taking some time to myself and getting to level myself and know what my purpose is- Mm … and knowing that, you know, what God has promised me, those little whispers in my ear that he’s given me, that he won’t leave nor forsake me.

I ain’t trying to get too churchy- No, come- … but I swear … oh, we in church up in here. It’s all good. Okay, cool. Mm-hmm. Okay, great. They know what it is. We good. Um, no, that’s truly what has kept me, but you’re right, it is very challenging- Yeah … to hold onto your worth in this industry. And I feel like more now than ever, I have colleagues, sisters calling me all the time being like, “Girl-” Yeah

“this thing is rough.” Mm-hmm. “What do I do? I don’t know what– Do I fire everybody? Do I…” Like- Mm-hmm … they are so lost- Mm-hmm … you know, and don’t, like they just don’t know what to do. I think early off in my career I really struggled with that- Yeah … because I didn’t see young people that looked like me. Yeah. Yes, we had, um, who?

Retta and Yvette Nicole Brown. Mm-hmm. And, you know, there was some plus size women out there, dark skinned women doing their things. Um, but there was, there, nobody was young-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah …

Danielle Brooks: doing it. So, I’m auditioning for mothers and I’m 21.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: And so I’m, I didn’t know, do I keep my hair straight- … or, you know, make it straight?

Uh-huh. Keep it curly? I can’t be light-skinned- Uh-uh … and so I’m gonna, I’ma rock with that. That’s after, yeah, uh-huh. We gonna, we gonna love that.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Uh-huh.

Danielle Brooks: Um, do I lose weight, do I gain weight? Mm. I was so confused. But thank God for Orange Is the New Black.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: Because I think that saved me in a lot of ways.

Yeah. We were on a show where we all wore the same thing. Nobody wore makeup. We weren’t wearing Spanx and heels. Yeah. It was not a beauty competition.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: And we also- It’s about

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: the acting …

Danielle Brooks: it’s about the acting. Yeah. But also there was room for multiple of us.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yes.

Danielle Brooks: That’s what was so beautiful. It didn’t have to say, “It’s only room for one.”

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yes.

Danielle Brooks: So it taught me about my worth pretty early- Yeah … on. Yeah. And that I did have a place.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I just saw Bocking in Baltimore- Oh, I’m so jealous … with Kalen Allen. At Kalen Allen, and of course, um, Adrienne who played Cindy. Adrienne C. Moore,

Danielle Brooks: baby.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: She was, they were all incredible. Um, and it’s the- I can’t explain Bocking to people.

Like, you kinda just have to see it. Gotta see

Danielle Brooks: it. I hope it comes to Broadway.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I really hope it does as well. And Preston Crowder is a genius. Mm-hmm. And I think that… But, but to your point, there was room for, for multiples of you, right? Yeah. That it didn’t have to just be one Black girl making it. And I think especially when I think about The Color Purple, obviously the, the film was meaningful to us, the play is meaningful to us, the musical version, the original version, all of that, and the book, all of it’s meaningful to us.

But I remember that press run-

Danielle Brooks: Oh, boy. …

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: in particular, watching you and Fantasia and Taraji sit on these couches together, and watching you all bring so many Black women journalists to tears because you were pouring into them-

Danielle Brooks: Yeah …

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: while you were out there promoting your, your film.

Danielle Brooks: Yeah. I was gonna say, we just cried.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah, I was like, “Y’all, everybody cried the whole-” The whole press run … whole press run. I mean, obviously you were nominated for an Academy Award. The film was nominated. But what did that project mean to you beyond all of that glitz and glamour? Especially knowing- Oh, man … how many tears fell during that run.

Danielle Brooks: That was an incredible time. Yeah. Like, to be alongside those women, also Miss O, like, it was, running into all of these Black journalists- Yeah … and being introduced to them. I mean, it was such a dope experience. I’m, I, I don’t wanna be cheesy, and I’m sure this word is going to come up a few times in this conversation-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm

Danielle Brooks: but it was healing.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: You know? It truly was, and it was affirming-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah …

Danielle Brooks: for me. You know, when you talk about your worth, that was the biggest shift for me to understand I’m here and I’m staying Mm. And there’s this song And I’m staying And I’m staying.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: I’m staying.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Come on.

Danielle Brooks: And you, you, you, and you

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: And y’all

Danielle Brooks: Gonna love me, baby.

Yeah. I ain’t going nowhere. Okay? Uh, that was just an incredible moment. I felt like, yeah, th- like, God, that whisper, I hear it. You’re showing yourself- Mm … true.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Danielle Brooks: You know? Like, ’cause there’s so many nos that you hear in this industry. Yeah. There’s so many hills that you truly do have to climb.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: To- and I auditioned for The Color Purple- Mm-hmm

the musical, um, uh, you know, and after doing a year on Broadway- Yeah … winning a Grammy, being nominated for a Tony, still had to prove myself.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yes.

Danielle Brooks: You know, so there’s all of these lessons that come with it, but He said, “I’ll never leave you nor forsake you,” and He didn’t. Yeah. And that was amazing experience.

So eye-opening, ’cause I didn’t win nothing, but like it was-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: But you won

Danielle Brooks: everything, though I won in a different way. You did. I won in a different way. You did. I won internally. I r- I truly did. Yeah. Because, like, the amount of doubt and things that I held within myself- Mm … was so deep, but I was able to, like, release a lot of that-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm

Danielle Brooks: and trust it. Yeah.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I have a prayer group with three of my girlfriends-

Danielle Brooks: Mm,

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: talk to me … um, two of my girlfriends every Monday. And I don’t remember who put it on Threads, I’ma find it and credit you, I swear, but somebody was saying that their prayer lately has been embarrass my doubt.

Danielle Brooks: Ooh.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: And I was like, “Oh,” exactly, “Oh.”

Danielle Brooks: That’s deep.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: So I, we couldn’t even get on the prayer call last Monday, but I sent a voice note and I was like, “Girls, this is the prayer this week.” Embarrass my doubt. “Jovi and Gia, this is the prayer this week. Embarrass my-” That’s a word. And let, let me tell you, you threw down in that film. Thank you. God embarrassed your doubt.

It wasn’t no doubt on that screen- Thank you, baby … just like there was no doubt on that stage. And I think that your staying power is a testament to the fact that Black women are never a trend.

Danielle Brooks: No.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: We are always and forever. Yes. And people forget that.

Danielle Brooks: Yes, they do forget that, but we remind them.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: I think we definitely remind them all the time.

They, there’s… We, come on. We ain’t, what can… How in the heck- Come

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: on …

Danielle Brooks: is this world gonna run without Black women? Can’t. And

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: won’t. And won’t. And won’t. Listen, I’m, I’m speaking of things running because of Black women, so you’re executive producing and acting-

Danielle Brooks: Yes, ma’am …

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: in this film. And I, I think I texted you when I saw the trailer, because I hadn’t seen anything that touched me like that-

Danielle Brooks: Yeah

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: in a really long time.

Danielle Brooks: It’s so special. I cannot wait for your eyeballs to see this. You’re going to, especially ’cause your mom-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah …

Danielle Brooks: your wife.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: You know, I think this story is so- Truly a love story to fathers and sons.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm.

Danielle Brooks: But he has not dropped the ball on the women.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Danielle Brooks: You know, I think on the mother.

Mm-hmm. Y- and seeing this point of view of a woman really trying to make the best decision for her family and her children and I think anybody who’s been raising a child-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Child …

Danielle Brooks: it is not easy.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: It’s not.

Danielle Brooks: It’s not, and we make it look so easy.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I think that’s what people, um, get confused by, right? Especially Black women, our labor has become so expected.

That’s right. And people have become so entitled to it- Yes … for so long. And because we do it with joy, we want everybody to feel good around us- With ease … and we take care of it, we look so easeful doing it. Mm-hmm. Which makes people think that it does not take discipline and intention and prayer and work and guts, and I feel like you put all of that into this, this film.

Danielle Brooks: Yeah. I definitely did. I mean, I was able to come from a real place. You know, back in the day, I was just really going off of imagination- Mm-hmm … when I played mothers in past independent films. Mm-hmm. You know? But I know firsthand- Yeah … now what it is to be so protective of your bear, bear cub, your little cub.

Yeah. You know, I know what that is to wanna protect their mind-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah …

Danielle Brooks: and what they see and not, um, let anyone take away their innocence.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Danielle Brooks: Um, you know? And their, like, childlike wonder and- Yep … all of those beautiful things that will soon be stripped away from the world. At least in my home-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm …

Danielle Brooks: they’re gonna last as long as you want them to, baby.

And that’s what, um, I feel like this film is reminding people. Like, allow each other to fly.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: You know? Like, don’t hold each other back because you don’t see the God in yourself.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Ooh.

Danielle Brooks: You know, I really think that’s what this film is about. And if you are- struggling to see the God in yourself, do the work.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm.

Danielle Brooks: Look in the mirror. Like, he literally has, our director, Walter Thompson-Hernandez, who also wrote it and edited it as well, has mirrors all throughout the film.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm.

Danielle Brooks: And they’re, um, pretty heightened moments- Yeah … too. And, you know, every now and then the actor is looking at themself in the mirror, and it’s like, are we ignoring what we see- Mm

I think is the question. I think, uh, you know, sometimes we pass that mirror and, and do ignore.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: But what is it to really stay there, and what is it to actually clean your mirror?

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Ooh.

Danielle Brooks: You know what I’m saying?

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Get them, them water

Danielle Brooks: spots off. Get them water sp- you know how many times we- Yeah … ignore water spots- Uh-huh

on a real day to day?

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Uh-huh.

Danielle Brooks: Like, what is it to not ignore those internal, personal-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah …

Danielle Brooks: water spots?

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: Yeah.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah, and really look intimately. I just feel like it’s so necessary for these kinds of stories to be told right now. For sure, 100%. And yet it is becoming more and more difficult, right? Between AI- Yeah

and white supremacy, we, like, right smack dab in the middle of this thing where people don’t want to embrace, fund, support independent filmmaking, filmmakers of color. What has this film taught you about what the industry really needs right now, what society needs right now? I

Danielle Brooks: feel like what I’m at a point is ignoring what they need.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Oh, period.

Danielle Brooks: I think that’s where I’m at.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: I don’t care. How old are you? I’m 37 Thursday.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah. Yeah, that’s exactly- Yeah … that’s about that time. I’m 41. That’s about that time where you stop saying, “I really don’t care what they think.”

Danielle Brooks: I don’t, I don’t. I, I c- I can’t.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: I will waste so much energy and time if I do.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Danielle Brooks: So, I think it’s about creating your own work.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Danielle Brooks: You know, aligning with people that want and have the same desires as you. You know, like-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah …

Danielle Brooks: you might not be an editor. You might not be a DP. Go find somebody in your community. Yeah. There is somebody-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yes …

Danielle Brooks: in this industry- Yes … that is waiting for your voice- Yeah

to hear from you- Yeah … that needs you just as much as you need them.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm.

Danielle Brooks: And I’m standing on that. I just did my sh- first short film. Really? Yes, I did. After Walter, ’cause, ’cause Walter’s our director.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: And this movie started out as a short film, and it won Sundance.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yes.

Danielle Brooks: And then he turned it into a feature-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm

Danielle Brooks: we shot in 22 days with no real budget.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Wow.

Danielle Brooks: And watching his passion, I was like, “I wanna do this.” Yeah, I could do that. I

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: can do

Danielle Brooks: this. Yeah, yeah. Get the resources. Like, I c- could make this happen.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Danielle Brooks: So I did. I got a short. I did three days. I wrote it myself. I directed it. Wow. I starred in it, got all my girlfriends from Juilliard.

They’re all Juilliard grads.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Period.

Danielle Brooks: Period. Viola Davis actually did a little cameo in it.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Wow.

Danielle Brooks: Yeah, I just-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Oh, this is serious business. This is

Danielle Brooks: serious.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: What’s it called?

Danielle Brooks: Does it have a name yet? It’s called

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Tacos. Tacos. Yes. Okay.

Danielle Brooks: Yeah, it’s about my bachelorette party that went wrong. It’s a comedy, dramedy.

Yeah. It’s fun. It’s fun. Do we get any tea about what ta- like, what happens in Taco House? Oh, girl, I can’t tell you that. I can tell you … I done told you a lot.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Okay. Well, we gonna look

Danielle Brooks: out for Tacos. Yeah, gotta look out for Tacos. And off- offline,

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: we will talk about these bachelorette parties-

Danielle Brooks: Yeah … ’cause

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: mine was in Miami, and it was a little-

Danielle Brooks: Oh, did it go wrong, too?

a little

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: rocky. It didn’t go wrong. It went very right, but it was, it was a good time.

Danielle Brooks: Yeah, we gotta share stories.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah, we do. We got some things to plot.

Danielle Brooks: We need to. Yeah, for sure.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I’ve been, um … You know, you talked about motherhood being so influential in this moment, and I’ve been thinking so much about

Some of this is just ’cause I’m getting old, but I’ve been thinking about archives lately, and kinda the body of work that we leave people.

Danielle Brooks: Mm.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I’ve become … My father passed when I was 12. Mm. It’s … It’ll be 30 years this December.

Danielle Brooks: Wow.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: And I got some of our old home movies digitized, and my father was a pastor, and I finally was able- Nice

to access some of these old sermons, and I’ve been so obsessed- Oh my gosh … with watching these sermons. And the other day Reggie was like, “You know, one day, long from now, the boys will have this archive of your podcasts and your writings and your speeches- Mm … to tell them about the world that you were trying to build for them, and how you felt about them.”

And I realized my daddy gave me his archives. Mm-hmm. I’m building some archives for my children.

Danielle Brooks: Mm-hmm.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: What do you want your baby- to receive from the archives that you’re

Danielle Brooks: leaving? Oh, man. I mean, obviously I want something tangible- Mm-hmm … that she can hold onto.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: You know, and I think I’m building that body of work in, you know, even now her being able to watch things like Minecraft or Karma’s World, and then eventually getting to the age to watch Color Purple- Yeah

and watching If I Go. But I think there’s some other archival things that I wanna leave her that are internal.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm.

Danielle Brooks: And I think it’s about what we’ve been talking about, being a Black woman in this world and, um, you know, just the worth of knowing her worth and-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah …

Danielle Brooks: and how she should stand on her business and, and not accept certain behaviors and-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yes.

Danielle Brooks: Also, I named my child Freeya-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm …

Danielle Brooks: which is F-R-E-E-Y-A- Mm-hmm … because I want her to always remember that she’s free.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yes.

Danielle Brooks: So that’s the first gift that I’m giving her.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: You know? I- there’s- those are the things that I, I want to leave with her because, you know, God knows how life is gonna go, but if I- Yeah

can instill certain things in her heart that will- Yeah … never leave her-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah …

Danielle Brooks: that’s major. And that’s like low-key what you have with your dad. Like, those sermons, yes, you can see them and you can see him moving, which must- Yeah … be incredible to just go

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: back. It just feels so good to hear his voice again.

Danielle Brooks: Hear his voice- Yeah … is there.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: But the lessons that he’s teaching-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm …

Danielle Brooks: in those sermons stick into your heart.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: That’s right.

Danielle Brooks: That’s amazing.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah. I feels, I feel so grateful. I have a, he was also a professor of liberation theology and Black church history, so I have his books that he, like, wrote in the-

Danielle Brooks: Girl

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: the, the sides of- And

Danielle Brooks: what a way you’re honoring him too- Thank you … by what, what, which you do.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I really appreciate

Danielle Brooks: that. Yes. Thank

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: you. You talk about your daughter. It’s interesting ’cause I’m, child, I’m done having kids, okay? Yeah. I’m just still trying to snatch this waist back. We gonna get there. I’m done having kids, which means I only have two sons, and I always thought I would have a daughter- Mm

’cause I just love Black women so much. And I was just like, “I know I’ma be raising one.” Mm-hmm. And then I realized part of my journey is to raise two Black men who make Black women feel safe and seen- Mm … and that that’s a different task, but just as important. And this film, like you said, is so much about a father and son relationship.

So we talk about what you wanna give your daughter. What do you want Black fathers and sons to take from this film?

Danielle Brooks: Oh, man.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Especially as you think about the Black men that your daughter, that Freeya will encounter in her life. Oh,

Danielle Brooks: man. Let the boys be boys.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm.

Danielle Brooks: I just, I think I struggle so much with masculinity and what that looks like- Yeah

and how they should carry they self and don’t cry- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm … and be hard and hold your feelings in. I just don’t like that at all. Yeah, yeah. Like, l- let ’em be little kids. Like, be little teenagers. Mm-hmm. Let ’em mess up, you know what I’m saying? And I know that this world is tough, and you do- Yeah … have to, you know, teach your child about b- The world Yeah Let’s- I mean, that’s just what it is, right?

Mm-hmm. But I just feel like home should be soft-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah …

Danielle Brooks: and a pillow for them to l- rest their head. Like, it should be a cloud. Mm-hmm. It should not be heavy and hard.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Danielle Brooks: You know what I’m saying? So I just, that’s what I would want for young boys, you know, growing up now, having their father’s, um, shoulder to lean on in a, in a soft way.

And I think that’s what this, this film hits on.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: You know, is, is just allow your kids- To like keep hold of that innocence.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Danielle Brooks: You know? Mm-hmm. Um, yeah, but I want, I w- I want the … I’m curious about you too, like what you think actually raising boys- Yeah … and what you see and feel and, you know, what’s that’s been like for you ’cause you’re in it.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I say all the time I wanna raise free, free Black children- Mm-hmm … to your point about how you named your daughter. And I am, I mean, you know our oldest was born four months early. Mm-hmm. And I just kept praying, “God, let him know joy,” because his entrance to the world was so hard and so taxing. Mm. And he had to work so hard to breathe and to live and to grow and to leave the NICU after four months.

And I just, every time he smiles a wide smile, I feel like I did something right with my day. Mm. Like everything else could have gone wrong, but every time he looks up at me and shows me every single one of his teeth, I’m like, “Okay-

Danielle Brooks: I know … we

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: onto something.”

Danielle Brooks: Isn’t that beautiful? Yeah. Like when you talk about, there’s this guy, I don’t know his name, on the TikTok, that girl on TikTok.

The

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: TikTok.

Danielle Brooks: Girl- The Clock app. The Clock app. Yes, the Clock app. And he just be dancing. Yes. He pop his little hips real hard and smile. The joy. And it just br- I follow him just ’cause of he brings me so much joy.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: So I love that that is the thing that you want your sons to have the most is joy. More than

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: anything else.

I just feel like if they feel joy, they can give joy to other people.

Danielle Brooks: That’s it.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: Like w- the way in which we interact, I’ve been talking about that a lot today, is so important.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm. Like

Danielle Brooks: we affect each other so much. Yeah. You know how little it takes. Somebody you just say hey to and they don’t say hey back- Yeah

how bad it’ll piss you off.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Now come on now.

Danielle Brooks: And you try-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: But on the reverse- Yeah … you walking down the street and somebody compliments your outfit-

Danielle Brooks: Girl, it’ll light your day up … hold that, hold that change Hold that. I might keep my heels on all day. Like I,

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: and don’t let it be a young person. I’m like, “Ugh, I really did that.

Thank you so much.”

Danielle Brooks: I know. I know. Yes, thank you. And they like pieces- Right … clock it, whatever they be doing. Like when they just big you up, I’ve had that happen- Yeah … and it just changes your day. That’s the power of human connection. Yeah,

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: yeah.

Danielle Brooks: And if we can teach our young people like that, those little things.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: But as you and I both know, that is taught through action.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: That’s right. That’s right.

Danielle Brooks: That is the key.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: Don’t just say what you want- Yeah … your child, be what you want your child to be. Yeah.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: And I think storytellers like you are so important in this time for exactly that reason, because there are so many people that are being held up by this society who are doing the exact opposite of that-

Danielle Brooks: Mm-hmm

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: who are showing nothing but hate and disrespect. Um, and- And meanwhile, you are bringing us joy and thoughtfulness and mirrors to look into. Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: Thank you.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: And speaking of joy-

Danielle Brooks: Talk to me …

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: we did know it was your birthday on Thursday. Yeah. So we got a, just a little something. Oh, god. Just a little, little something.

Oh, that’s so kind. You know, happy birthday. Yes. Oh, sing, sing. I told Taylor… Thank you, Taylor. Baby, sing. Go ahead. I, I told Taylor, I said, “She wearing white, so don’t get the chocolate cupcake.” Oh, this

Danielle Brooks: is so great. Thank you.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: But what’s your birthday wish?

Danielle Brooks: Oh, my birthday wish is for everybody to go see my film- Period

the next day. If I go, will they miss me? September 18th in theaters. That is what my ultimate wish is because it is not about, like, dollars for me. Yeah. It’s not about like, oh, go see me in a movie.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Danielle Brooks: It’s go get your healing. Yeah. Go see something that’s gonna make you think, like, be a better person. Yes.

All those, that’s really what I want. Yes. So I’m gonna make my wish. I’m not, don’t know if I’m supposed to tell you my wish, but I’ll tell you what. Okay.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Well, we’re all gonna go make your wish come true.

Yay. Yay. Happy birthday. I’m eating me a cupcake too. Thank you. Thank you, dear- So kind … for being you. Thank you for coming to Undistracted. No, we’re not

Danielle Brooks: done? We’re done?

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Girl, you got places to go- No, we’re not done … and people to see. Okay, let me, I’m gonna ask you one more question.

Danielle Brooks: Okay.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: What are you watching or listening to right now?

‘Cause I need recommendations. I’m, I’ve binged all the stuff that I…

Danielle Brooks: Oh, my God.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I done binged all the stuff I could binge.

Danielle Brooks: I feel the same way. I, I just watched Tyler Perry’s movie, um- Why’d I get married again? … The Merry. I had to watch it.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Child, when Mike’s toupee came

Danielle Brooks: out- Girl … I fell out. That daggone movie is a trip.

I saved that meme to my

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: phone fast. With the kids. Yes.

Danielle Brooks: I watched that. That was a quick watch. I’ve been reading. Heidi, what’s that new book I got? Is that, Before I Let Go? Yeah, Before I Let

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Go. Oh,

Danielle Brooks: yes. I’ve been reading Before I Let Go. I’m late to the party. Yeah, yeah. Did you read it?

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I haven’t read it. It’s o- it’s on my, in my to-be-read stack, which is- Okay

a very big stack.

Danielle Brooks: Oh, gosh. Yes. So I’m into reading. I’m reading Before I Let Go right now. Um, but I haven’t been, like, I think we’re in the same boat.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Have you b- have you watched Diarra from Detroit?

Danielle Brooks: Oh, my God. I have.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I love that show so bad. I

Danielle Brooks: have, Diarra. I was waiting

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: for season two so

Danielle Brooks: bad. I need to call her, actually, ’cause I feel bad.

I’ve been t- I told her, I was like, “I’m gonna watch everything. I’m binging it- … in a month so I don’t have to keep paying this $14.99.” Listen, I think your gas is too high. But I have been moving slow. Um, but I’m on the second season- Yes … like halfway through. Yes. And I really like the show.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Okay, hit me when you get to the end of the second season- Oh,

Danielle Brooks: no

’cause it is so good. It’s good? Okay. It’s very juicy. She’s killing it. I’m very happy

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: for her. She really is. Sherlock homegirl.

Danielle Brooks: Yes, Sherlock homegirl. It’s so good.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Okay, so go stream Diarra from Detroit.

Danielle Brooks: Yeah.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Go see the film, September 18th-

Danielle Brooks: Yes …

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: all across the country.

Danielle Brooks: All across, yeah. ‘

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Cause we gotta get your birthday wish to come true.

Danielle Brooks: And listen to the next episode, or the past episode, of Undistracted. Yes, indeed,

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: which comes out on your birthday, so it’s perfect timing.

Danielle Brooks: Yay.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for

Danielle Brooks: being you. Thank you. We’ll see you

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: soon.

Danielle Brooks: Thanks,- Brittany.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: All right. Now, I told y’all on Trending News today was gonna be a little old school, and we’re gonna throw it back to when I used to address these topics one-on-one with y’all, because this week’s story deserves some extra attention.

Last Tuesday, a 27-year-old AI researcher named Jacob Coxon resigned from Anthropic after previously working at OpenAI, of course, the creators of ChatGPT. And in a now viral resignation thread on X that reached well over 100 million views, he accused both companies and said that they are, quote, “Racing straight to self-improving superintelligence and gambling with our lives.”

End quote. Big gulp. He went further, saying that the people building the technology genuinely believe it could, quote, “Kill all of us by the end of the decade.” And Jacob was clear, this is not hyperbole, and he said it was not a publicity stunt. There were a number of senior Anthropic researchers that publicly agreed with Coxon, including Evan Hubinger and Samuel Marks, and the whole episode prompted several other AI safety researchers at Anthropic and Google DeepMind to speak out too.

It also drew reactions from lawmakers and industry figures, and Bernie Sanders has come out and said that he would introduce legislation to ban the development of superintelligence. Y’all. Yeah, let me, let me keep going here, because I really appreciated the comment in response to all of this from Dr. Timnit Gebru, founder of the Distributed AI Research Institute. Y’all remember her. She was one of the earliest whistleblowers, before all the white boys took all the airtime. She said this: “Can a bridge decide to collapse? When a bridge collapses, you don’t analyze whether the bridge was ethical or sentient or why it decided to collapse.

You ask who is the person who built this bridge to be so flimsy. There are permits you have to acquire. There are supposed to be tests.” She said, “When you ask about the bridge collapsing itself, you’ve lost the thread.” Hello somebody, this is why people like Dr. Gebru and so many other mostly women of color who were calling this out from the very beginning were silenced, because they wanted to make sure we were clear.

Stop passing the buck and the blame to these, uh, to these devices that people created, and start holding the people accountable. Why is this so difficult? I also need everyone here to go read Abi Awomosu’s Substack right now. It’s called The Machine Alibi: Unpacking the Myth of Superintelligence, where she points out a very interesting observation.

She reminds us that the whistleblowers who are now raising alarm bells about the power of AI to threaten the future of humanity are getting more primetime air to speak, and they’re getting backup from major leaders. They’re even getting pats on the back for warning that we should slow AI down, like they’re not the ones in the driver’s seat.

Meanwhile, the whistleblowers who talk about the present day dangers, like copyright infringement and creative theft, environmental impacts, and out of control data centers, yeah, those folks are being much more viciously targeted and silenced. She claims that the fear-mongering about the end of humanity actually helps AI leaders.

Here’s what she says. She says, “Put the machine in the subject position and you get an extinction story. Put the humans in the subject position, and you get a subpoena and a court order with your name on it. The agents went rogue has no defendant. The alibi was never about hiding the crime. It’s about making sure there is no crime scene.”

Y’all, Black women tried to tell you, and then they all got fired. Listen, quiet is kept. I went to high school with the founder of OpenAI. He was a few years behind me. I didn’t really know him, and I’m grateful for my education, but it definitely occurred at an elite, majority white, private institution, and a place where money and power often went unchecked.

So I’m completely unsurprised by the ethical issues at play here, because now these folks want a cookie for telling us the Frankenstein they built just might be dangerous. Meanwhile, they’ve already built their bunkers. The world they built is on fire, but Elon will ride his crotch rocket all the way to Mars, and Jeff will land his penis ship on the red planet while we all burn.

They’d rather colonize space than protect the rest of us, the final frontier and whatnot. They’re telling us the bridge is burning on its own. Meanwhile, they lit the match, and they built their boats, and they’ll sail away while we drown. But this future is not inevitable, and we don’t have to accept it.

Call Congress, get behind Bernie’s bill, demand that your candidates this midterm take a clear stance on AI’s current and future dangers, and share and subscribe to Substacks like Abi’s. We get to build the future we deserve. We don’t have to hand it off to the robots or the goons who really control them.

When you talk to a storyteller like Danielle, and you realize that AI is threatening the future of creative outlets like hers, and telling stories of its own making instead of the ones that human beings actually create, or even worse, thieving the stories that human beings created and passing it off as its own, I’m a little worried about, um, what the future can hold, and frankly, what the present holds when industries like Hollywood and film and television are not trying to make sure that all of our stories are getting heard.

So, thank God for the storytellers. Thank God for Danielle. Thank God for those folks who are shouting from the rooftops to make sure that the train of AI doesn’t just steamroll us over. Thank God for all of us who stay undistracted. Thanks for listening. Thanks for being, and most importantly, thanks for doing.

I’m Brittany Packnett Cunningham. Let’s go get free, y’all.

Our executive producers are Cindi Leive and myself, Brittany Packnett Cunningham.

Our producer at Collective Media is Douglas Forte with supervising producer Ryan Jones.

Our supervising producer at The Meteor is Taylor Hosking and artwork is by Bianca Alvarez.

This episode was produced with support from Liberation Ventures and The Meteor Fund.

You can follow me on all social media @mspackyetti and our incredible team @themeteor.