Comedian Amber Ruffin Wants to “De-Gaslight” America

Please note: This transcript has been automatically generated.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham Hey y’all, it’s Brittany. So, ain’t it funny how the mainstream media and law enforcement will bend over backwards to not call a thing, a thing? Like how for the last week, women of color and Asian women in particular have been saying that the gunman in Atlanta was targeting Asian women because of deep-seated racist misogyny. And reporters and the police were just all, “Oh, we just — we don’t know why this has happened.” I want to get one thing straight. Racist misogynists don’t wear signs that read “I am a racist misogynist,” and requiring that they do in order to believe what women are saying is both racist and misogynistic because it invalidates the experiences that we live and breathe every day. Y’all, the persistent hypersexualization of Asian women has been talked about at length by the very women who have experienced it. From the fetishized depictions of Asian women in pop culture to the racist catcalling they endure on the streets, to the idea that they could be the cause of a white male gunman’s so-called bad day because they were just too, quote, “tempting.” This has been happening. And in order for us to stop such harmful stereotypes and the violence that results from them, we have to call it out where we see it, when we see it for what it is, both misogyny and racism. They are inseparable, that is a fact. Debate your pastor not me. We are UNDISTRACTED. 

On the show today, Amber Ruffin. I will be talking to the host of the Amber Ruffin show about the rise of Black women in late night TV and why it’s high time the white man took a back seat. 

Amber Ruffin Old white executives can only do what they can do. You know what I mean?

Brittany Packnett Cunningham They lack the range. 

Amber Ruffin I think they’ve given us all they have to give and now they’ve proven they need a little bit of help. 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham That’s coming up, but first, it’s your “UNtrending News”

First up, I want to get to the rising movement for women’s safety and against police violence that’s happening right now in the UK It was sparked following the recent murder of Sarah Everard, who was allegedly killed by a police officer while walking home one night in south London. Women’s rights groups are not just furious about Sarah’s death. They’re also angry at the heavy handed response from the police in the aftermath. During a recent nonviolent vigil in London, the police attempted to break it up by using violence. 

Protestor Shame on you! Shame on you!

Brittany Packnett Cunningham Now, demonstrators have been gathering around the country to oppose a new bill which could grant new powers to the police, including more power to control protesters. 

Protestor Pow, pow, pow! Pow, pow, pow! 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham Listen, women don’t necessarily feel unsafe because there aren’t enough police. The police are often a source of our trauma and danger. Hello. I’m not the only one who believes that giving them more powers would only leave women more vulnerable. The 2019 report by The Independent found that 568 London police officers were accused of sexual assault between 2012 and 2018, but only 43 of them faced any disciplinary proceedings. 

Protestor How many more? How many more? How many more?

Brittany Packnett Cunningham Enough is enough. So stop this police crackdown bill in the UK. And while we’re at it, let’s stop a similar bill in Louisville, Kentucky that’s trying to make it a crime to insult a police officer. It’s the least we can do for Sarah Evrard so she can actually rest in peace. 

Okay, remember the new reparations program outside of Chicago that Cori Bush mentioned last week? Well, on Monday, that program finally passed. So Evanston, Illinois has become the first city in the US to give reparations to its Black residents. And like Cori said, the funding for the ten million dollar plan is expected to come from the city’s sales tax on marijuana. So any Black person who lived in Evanston from 1919 to 1969 during a period of rampant housing discrimination, they’re now eligible to apply for up to twenty-five thousand dollars in reparations. The catch, and there is always a catch, is that Black families can only use the money to pay for a home mortgage or home repairs. This means that some renters won’t be able to use it at all. The one person who voted against the bill was Cicely Fleming, a Black woman who says she supports reparations but that this plan is just a housing plan, which she describes as paternalistic. I agree. As these debates ramp up, we have to make sure that this money is accessible to everyone who is harmed to use in the ways that they see fit. This is a small start, but controlling how Black folks use money that is owed to us is condescending. This is about giving back people their own capital, so we should treat it like that. 

And finally, yesterday, March 24th, was equal pay day. And earlier this week, the Venus Williams took the opportunity to pen a powerful letter in British Vogue about the wage gap. The tennis star titled it “Sexism Isn’t a Women’s Issue, Any More Than Racism is a Black Issue.” Wooh.

Venus recounted how when she won her first Wimbledon Championship in 2000, she was paid forty-seven thousand dollars less than her male counterpart. But in 2007, after years of demanding equal pay, she became the first woman to receive equal prize money for winning Wimbledon. And ever since, Venus has continued to speak out on the subject. 

Venus Williams Significant wage gaps between men and women persist, particularly for women of color. Throughout my career, I’ve really worked towards closing that gap in the wage gap, but there’s really so much more work to do. 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham This month, Venus launched an initiative called #PrivilegeTax, where people shopping at participating stores could donate 19 cents to the Girls Inc. chapter of Greater Los Angeles. That’s 19 cents inspired by the grim fact that in 2020, American women made eighty-one cents for every dollar a man made. And that’s the median for all women. On average, women of color receive significantly lower wages. Venus explained that the campaign is part of her vision to get people of all genders fighting for gender equity. And for certain, the responsibility of fixing oppression should not keep falling to the oppressed. Venus, I love what you do on and off the court. You are a queen for a reason. 

Coming up, I’ll be talking to comedian Amber Ruffin about why Black women make the perfect late night TV writers right after this short break. 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham And we are back. My guest today made history in 2014 when she became the first Black woman to become a staff writer on a late night network talk show. That’s right, Amber Ruffin has made a name for herself on Late Night with Seth Meyers, with her brilliant blend of social justice commentary and gut busting humor. Her comedic chops led her to also get her very own show last fall, The Amber Ruffin Show. It usually streams on Peacock, but this month NBC gave it a two week trial broadcast run. 

Amber Ruffin Hi, welcome to The Amber Ruffin Show. The only late night show brave enough to tell you the truth. Baby carrots are just cut up regular carrots. 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham There is no doubt Amber’s star is rising. She was named this year’s Time 100 Next List that celebrates emerging leaders. Seth Meyers wrote of her, quote, “Amber Ruffin has been ready for this moment for a long time, but there’s never been a moment we have needed her more.” I couldn’t agree more, and that’s why we needed to talk to her. Get ready for the laughs. 

Amber, it is so fantastic to talk to you. 

Amber Ruffin Yay! I’m so excited. I love you so bad. 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham Oh, my gosh. The feeling is very mutual. Congratulations on your recent late night network TV run. How was that for you? 

Amber Ruffin That was extremely exciting. I mean, it is weird to turn on your little TV and see The Amber Ruffin Show in like the guide to the TV where you usually see, like, The Love Boat. That was very cool. 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham I love that. 1:30 was like, I was attempting to be in bed, but because my insomnia’s set up the way that it is and because I love you so much, I was like, I might as well just turn it on because I’m not going to be asleep anyway. Otherwise it was going to my DVR. So I want to talk a little bit more about the show. But first, I want you to take me back. You are from Omaha, Nebraska. Shout out to Midwesterners, and you did local theater before you moved to Chicago and you focused on improv. How did you end up landing your big break writing for Seth Meyers? 

Amber Ruffin I was doing a lot of improv and I was improvising at a place called Boom Chicago in Amsterdam, which is a place where Seth Meyers used to improvise. So, you know, he would come back, like all the alums of the theater would come back and visit and have fun once a year. So I knew him from that. And then when SNL had auditioned a bunch of Black women, you know, when they found Sasheer Zamata and Leslie Jones at the same time. I auditioned then and it was just — it was LaKendra Tookes, Sasheer Zamata, Leslie Jones and me. We were the final four and the three of them got SNL and I did not. I was so heartbroken. 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham But, you ended up getting hired by Seth and working at 30 Rock

Amber Ruffin Yeah, right down the hallway. 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham It all worked out. And this was, of course, in 2014. So like you said, there was a lot happening for Black women in comedy in that moment. But you ended up being the only Black woman writing on the Seth Meyers show and in fact, the only Black woman staff writer in all of network late night TV. That is wild to me. 

Amber Ruffin Isn’t that insane? Yeah, it is so funny because after I was hired, then Robin Thede got her show and people started to hire Black women to write comedy. And all Black women should be writing on a late night show. It’s exactly what we are good at. It’s — you take this ball and you take it all the way to the finish line. Like, you write your idea and then you have to find a funny wig and you have to dress up like a dinosaur and you have to make sure that it’s edited in the right way and you have to turn in on time. You know what I mean? You know how all Black women are just natural event planners. 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham We are. 

Amber Ruffin And will check and see like, “I know you said you’d do it, but did you get it done?” Like that. Those people are the best at late night. So I think everyone is figuring it out.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham Well, so in addition to writing on Late Night with Seth Meyers, you also star in hilarious segments like “Amber Says What?” And my fave, “Jokes Seth Can’t Tell.” Jokes that because he’s a straight white man, he cannot deliver. 

Seth Meyers In a recent interview with Oprah, Meghan Markle revealed that Buckingham Palace refused to grant a title to her son, who is the first person of color born into the royal family.

Amber Ruffin Which is actually a good thing because the title was going to be Sir Melanin of Chocolate Shire. 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham There’s a reason the segment is called “Jokes Seth Can’t Tell.” And your humor — I gotta say it, like you’re funny and you’re silly too which I think sometimes we don’t get to see Black women being which I love. But you’re also insightful and intelligent, especially on issues of current affairs and race. So I mean really, like what is so funny about racism. 

Amber Ruffin I mean, on the surface nothing, in practice everything. I mean, the very definition of it is ridiculous, you know. So, it’s like these people who walk among us are walking around with these insane beliefs. And when they come into play, it is funny. I think when it happens to you, it’s almost always either funny or infuriating. And lots of times it’s really funny when someone mentions a rap song and then they look at me like, you know what I mean? I’m 42. I don’t know what rap song you’re talking about. 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham How do you approach that balance of humor and seriousness? Because you’re right, these experiences can be both infuriating and funny and it’s a really delicate needle to thread. 

Amber Ruffin It is, but we have been threading this needle our whole lives. You know, when you come home at dinnertime and you go, you will never guess what the science teacher said to me today. And then you, you know, regale your family with stories about, you know, learning about genetics in science class. You know what I mean? You are telling it to people who have experienced it. So to you guys, it is funny. And there’s a big shorthand there. But recently, everyone has started to understand that racism is a constant. And so I think a lot more people are at the dinner table laughing with us. Whereas, you know, friggin three years ago, you couldn’t get white people to laugh about a lot of this stuff. But now they’re a little plugged in.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham And realizing just how ridiculous all of it is. So last summer, after the killing of George Floyd, your humor, I would say, became even more bold and more political. And it also — it also became much more personal. You started opening Late Night by telling many of these stories of the run ins that you had had with police. And there were many. What has it been like to really mine humor in this last year? You talk about people being more plugged in and this time, you know, our country is having a profound and honestly incredibly sad reckoning with racism. 

Amber Ruffin My goal has always been to de-gaslight us because you know, people are saying all kinds of amazing stuff and there are people who don’t have any touchstones in their lives who can go, “Oh, that was a bad thing to say.” We’re just talking basic humanity here. Some people are the only minority or “other” person in their workplace or family. And I just wanted everyone to have an adult in their lives that will call garbage garbage because not everybody has that. 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham That’s what I really love about your comedy, that you’re not deflecting, you’re not avoiding the pain of what’s going on. You’re actually accessing the really hard truths. 

Amber Ruffin Yes. I mean, the only way to talk about it is to go right through it. And also, like talking in circles around it is how we got here in the first place. I don’t think there can be any more shorthand, there can’t be any more tiptoeing. We have to call it what it is and let it sting. 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham Yeah. So you’ve got the success of your writing and then these on-air segments and you get your own weekly show last September, The Amber Ruffin Show. You are the boss. It’s your name on the TV Guide, on the programming guide. And I understand that your writing staff is 90 percent Black. What — what kind of difference does that make? 

Amber RuffinIt’s weird, man, because 90 percent of comedy is going, “Okay. So do you remember that thing when, you know, there are those three Budweiser frogs saying Budweiser,” you know, a lot of working in comedy is that. So like, I have literally never, except for when I worked on Black Lady Sketch Show, which I work on remotely, instead of getting to be in the room with like eight Black women. But now I can go, “Okay, so do you guys remember that song What Would You Do by City High?

Brittany Packnett Cunningham Yes and we start singing it.

Amber Ruffin And then we sing — oh my gosh, so much singing. 

Brittany Packnett CunninghamIf your son was at home, crying all alone.” 

Amber Ruffin No one asked for this. We certainly did sing the whole dang song. But you know what I mean? You have a shorthand when it’s a Black room and you realize, “Oh, I’ve been writing with weights on because white people can just say all of it and I have to know their stuff, but they don’t have to know, you know, when Rudy got her period. Well, they probably know that, but they don’t have to know when Maxine Shaw fell in love with —

Brittany Packnett Cunningham With Kyle Barker? For those of you who have no idea what we’re talking about, we’re talking about the ‘90s TV show Living Single, a classic. 

Amber Ruffin When you are Black your first you know, my first thought is Kyle and Maxine. But then I’m in a white room, so I go, “Okay, you know, Chandler and Monica,” you know. So everything you do, you need to take two steps instead of just one. But here the weights are off and we are soaring and it feels fantastic.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham So the weights are off, you are soaring. I want to play a bit of a segment of you soaring. You talked about the importance of pronouncing Madam Vice President Kamala Harris’ name correctly. Honestly, I loved it because it was like a dissertation disguised as a comedy routine. 

Amber Ruffin That’s how we get you. 

Amber Ruffin Last week at a Trump rally, Republican Senator David Perdue mispronounced Kamala Harris’ name. 

Sen. David Perdue Kama — or Kamala or Kamala or Kamala-mala-mala I don’t know. 

Amber Ruffin I am sick of white people acting like Kamala is just a name you can’t say. Guess what? If you refuse to learn someone’s name because it belongs to a person of color, you are a racist. You know how I know? Because here are some of the names that white people always get right. Emily Ratajkowski, Timothée Chalamet, Saoirse Ronan, Cher. Look, here’s a little history lesson for you. One of the only things Black people really gained control of in the history of this country is what we name our children. When Black folks got off slave ships, white people renamed us. So when we finally got some freedom, we decided to take our names back. So you get Keshas and Shaniquas and Davontes on your roll call and there is power in those names. And if you are willing to learn a white Eastern European name that has no vowels but can’t wrap your head around Kamala, you need to ask yourself why. Kamala is barely any different than Pamela. And there’s not a white person alive who doesn’t know a Pamela. This name plays to your skill set. 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham You brought a depth of research and insight that is just beyond the joke telling. Why do you think it’s important that you go beyond just those easy, basic observations? You really dig into some deep education about history and race. 

Amber Ruffin Yeah, I mean, people don’t know why, you know. We need to go all the way to the very beginning and be like, this is where the bad thing comes from. This is how it was built because you can’t dismantle something you don’t know — when you don’t know how it was built. 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham Last week, you thankfully took on the really recent horrific anti-Asian, anti-woman killings in Atlanta. Let’s take a quick listen. 

Amber Ruffin Asian-Americans have reported street harassment, attacks on their elders, and vandalism of their businesses. One asshole in Texas graffitied a ramen shop. Do you know how stupid and racist you have to be to get mad at soup, especially when that soup is delicious? Get a grip racist. I remember last summer when people from all over were protesting and saying, “Protect Black women, Black lives matter.” Seeing that felt really great and I want that feeling for you. So just to be extra explicit, we hate this. It’s not right. Your feelings are valid. You deserve to feel safe. You deserve to be safe. We love you. This has been, “How Did We Get Here?” 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham Do you ever think how on earth am I possibly going to make this extremely dark topic resonate? 

Amber Ruffin Um, no, I feel like I always think I should be talking about the things we are all talking about. And, you know, by the time I’ve said it on TV I’ve had 40 conversations about it and, you know. We all have, and we’re distilling those conversations into the good points, trying to add some historical context. Because every conversation I had about — particularly that had some new information in it for me — you know, when I got done talking to my various Asian friends about it, I was smarter and I was like, “Oh, I want this for other people.” 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham You want this for other people and you’re doing it right on time. You know, they say comedy is tragedy plus time, but you don’t waste time before you dig right in. 

Amber Ruffin I really don’t. And I think, again, people have got to stop tiptoeing. And like, if you have a question, you gotta ask it and it’s fine. And if you have something to say, go ahead and throw it out there and see what happens. We can’t let something horrible happen and then all turn away because it feels bad. Friggin guess what? That’s not the bad part. Hearing about it isn’t the bad part. 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham That’s right. That’s right. If you are tired of talking about racism, imagine how much worse it is actually dealing with it. Okay, so you have been breaking boundaries in late night TV, which is notoriously dominated by white men since the days of Ed Sullivan and beyond. You already talked about some of this, but in the last few years we’ve really started to see some shifts. You’ve got women and women of color in particular getting nightly talk shows. Wanda Sykes and Mo’Nique, we talked about our girl, Robin Thede. Lilly Singh made history as the first queer woman of color to host network late night television. I’m curious to get your take on why this representation matters in late night. Right? A place where a lot of people get their actual news. 

Amber Ruffin It is crazy that people are talking about all of these things that have to do with, like, you know, women’s issues and race and stuff. And they are all white men and it’s like, “Why? Who made this rule?” And it’s so funny because it’s just the way the world shifted. And now there are all of these things that we are talking about that have nothing to do with these hosts. They don’t have any skin in the game. They’re giving you secondhand information. And now I think people are seeing them being like, well, I want firsthand information, you know. But there are a lot of new shows coming up. Ziwe Fumudoh is about to have her own late night show and so is Sam Jay. Now, there’s going to be three Black women with their own late night show. And I can’t wait. 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham I can’t wait either because Black women are funny as hell. And I mean, there should clearly be way more than three. But we talk about representation. But representation is the most basic layer there is. What do you think needs to be done in late night TV to really make that space truly equitable and not just diverse? 

Amber Ruffin I think it’s the people making decisions that have to change, you know. Because old white men — old white executives can only do what they can do, you know what I mean?

Brittany Packnett Cunningham They lack the range. 

Amber Ruffin I think they’ve given us all they have to give. And now they’ve proven they need a little bit of help. We should probably get them some coworkers of color. 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham Relief. 

Amber RuffinYeah, send in a pinch hitter. 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham So we’ve got your work in television, which is continuing to be incredible. You’re also, though, a New York Times best selling author. 

Amber Ruffin Yay!

Brittany Packnett Cunningham In January, you and your sister, you released a book called You’ll Never Believe What Happened to Lacey, which features, quote, “Crazy stories about racism.” For those who haven’t read it yet, can you tell us a little bit about it? Like what kind of things have happened to your big sis, Lacey? 

Amber Ruffin Lacey — well, Lacey has grown up and still lives in Omaha, Nebraska and she will call me and be like, you will never believe what happened. And it is always just the best, most outrageous story I’ve ever heard because she — well, first of all, because I live in New York and I work in comedy, so I don’t really remember what these things are like. You know, I forget that constant danger you’re in when everyone who works with you is white and from Omaha. It’s everything from like once she had Black history checks. And so each check had a different Black history hero on it. And she paid for something with a check and the cashier goes, “Oh, I didn’t know you could get checks with your picture on it.” Girl, it was a picture of Harriet Tubman. 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham Oh my God.

Amber Ruffin Oh my gosh, I laughed myself to death, but it’s just, you know, after having lived in Omaha, Nebraska her whole life, if you look back at just the funny stories, there was more than enough for a book. So it’s just a very good time about very bad stuff.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham A very good time about very bad stuff that, that you’ve noted, a lot of people think don’t happen anymore. 

Amber Ruffin I don’t know where people have gotten that idea. But, yeah, I think once Barack Obama got elected, people were like, “Good night.” You know, I mean, in that is racism, but okay. And then once Trump got elected, like I would say, 40 percent of the book is after Trump got elected. So these people are out here wildin’ out.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham Wilin’ out, doing a racism. So you’ve got your book. You’ve got the show, you got your segments on late night. They’re all reaching this really wide mainstream audience. And we touched on this a little bit before. But ultimately, what do you think humor can achieve in terms of opening people’s minds, helping people understand how racism functions, that perhaps straight up education, somebody standing in front of a white board can’t do? 

Amber Ruffin I mean, it is up to people like how are you consuming this stuff, like, are you doing the work? Because I would have said, hey, let’s all drag people into the light and blah, blah, blah. But then, like Bill Maher’s out there saying all kinds of crazy stuff. And years ago he was everybody’s favorite. So we are all in danger. So I think everyone is doing what they can because human beings want to be better human beings. And I do believe that. And I think that’s why our segments are interesting, because they can literally help you be a better human being, something most of us are trying to do every day. So I think people need to be open because we — and I’m saying this about every comedian, we cannot be trusted. We are not enough. I am not smart enough to provide any substantial help. I can just make sure that you are not gaslight. That is everything I can offer. 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham Yeah, we’re grateful for all you offer. You damn sure shouldn’t be — have to teach people who Harriet Tubman is. But we’re glad for all that you’re doing. 

Amber RuffinShe’s my sister. You didn’t know. 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham Amber, it is so great talking to you. I want to play us out with a song that you and your co-conspirator Tarik Davis recently sang. It’s titled “White Supremacists Facing Consequences Fills Me With Joy.” Can you set it up? 

Amber RuffinThis was after January 6th when all the people who participated in the insurrection were slowly getting picked up fricken — they got recognized at the airport. Then they couldn’t board their plane or they got on their plane and people were like, that’s him. And they got kicked off the plane. Or the police would show up at someone’s grandmother’s house and be like, “You’re coming with me.” And these people one by one, were slowly starting to get arrested and it felt fantastic. It felt fantastic. And I feel a little bad for loving the fact that it was happening. But they still getting arrested and it still tickles me, it’s great. 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham Amber, thank you so much for who you are and all you do. And thanks for spending time with me. 

Amber Ruffin Yay! Thank you for having me. 

Amber Ruffin Is it the way you look when you get dragged out of the airport, baby? Is it the way you reacted when they said get off the plane? 

Tarik Davis Is it the way you scream when you realize that you’re going to get it? 

Is it the way you thought that being white was going to save your ass?

Amber and Tarik Been waiting for years for a change, now it’s starting to shift. I feel so ashamed when I must admit that there’s an appeal to how you make me feel. Your sadness fills me with joy. 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham Amber Ruffin is the host of The Amber Ruffin Show and a writer and performer for Late Night with Seth Meyers

Y’all I needed a laugh today, I know you did, too. Amber is definitely making a very good time out of very bad stuff. I think a lot of us turn away from the hard truths because they force us to look in the mirror. But if more people actually looked at their own reflections, I’m talking about white folks and really any of us with privilege, maybe there would be an opportunity to unlearn some crap you’ve been taught. And there’s nothing wrong with humor being the gateway to your growth. And thank God we have Amber to help de-gaslight us. Women of color in particular have to deal with so much overt and insidious racism and misogyny and there can be such relief in laughing about it all. It’s — it’s really a way of taking back our own power. I am so excited for a new crop of diverse comedians to make their way onto late night TV. Women of color and other marginalized voices who will surely bring much needed perspectives and jokes, we can’t forget about the jokes. Sometimes we laugh to keep from crying and we’ve done plenty of crying. So please bring on the laughs. 

That’s it for today, but never for tomorrow. 


UNDISTRACTED is a production of The Meteor and Pineapple Street Studios. 

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Thanks also to Treasure Brooks, Grace Chen and Hannis Brown.

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Before I go, in the first three months of 2021 we’ve had 104 mass shootings. That doesn’t even include all of the gun violence that continues to show up in Black, brown and marginalized communities when nobody’s even talking about it. I don’t know what it’s going to take for enough to be enough, but I do know one thing. Thoughts and prayers are nice, but action is better. So to Congress, we’re going to make sure you do your jobs. Visit to find out how you can take action to end this thing once and for all. Thanks for listening. Thanks for being. Thanks for doing. I’m Brittany Packnett Cunningham. Let’s go get free.