Please note: This transcript has been automatically generated.

Brian Tyler Cohen: When we have the base of the Democratic Party that is largely these, these strong, uh, uh, articulate Black women, women like AOC, who have proven to the, to the vast majority of Americans that she best represents our ideals, whether it’s on climate, whether it’s on healthcare, whether it’s on workers’ dignity, you name it, those are the people that we need to elevate in this party

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Hey, y’all, Brittany here. So, I know you probably noticed, we’ve been gone for a couple of weeks. That first week was a planned hiatus. I had some travel, I had some work to do, everybody needed a breather. But that second week, yeah, that second week was not planned. Your girl was down bad. My tummy tum-tum was doing a rum pum pum-pum.

It sounded like chaos in there, and it felt even worse. The good news is that all I had was a stomach bug, ’cause it could’ve been worse. I could’ve had that doo doo parasite. Y’all know exactly which one I’m talking about. And allegedly, all of this is because the CDC decided to stop tracking the very parasite that has made people sick in over 30 states.

Yeah, that MAHA guy, he’s up to no good once again. And reportedly, the, uh, distributor, Taylor Farms, that is responsible for producing leafy greens that go to fast food restaurants, and sit-down chains, and salad kits at your local grocery store, yeah, they are friends of the, uh, exalted leader, I guess they might call him.

So, it seems like, allegedly, they might not actually have to take all that much responsibility for what has happened or any responsibility for fixing it. And that is exactly why I need you Democrats to go ahead and get your lives together, because everything from legislating, to laws, to lettuce, are being impacted by these fools we got in office now.

And I personally, don’t wanna deal with this anymore. I don’t wanna deal with thinking I can’t eat no tacos, and I don’t wanna deal with my rights being taken away. You see where I’m going with this? At the end of the day, Democrats sometimes don’t like it when we have something to say about what they could be doing better to, I don’t know, actually win these elections that they’re running in.

What y’all call criticism, I call consulting, and we’re giving it to you for the free. All this feedback that we’re putting on Threads, and Twitter, and in our TikTok videos, and yes, here on Undistracted, could be helpful to you all, if you stop being defensive for long enough to listen to the people you’re asking to vote for you.

‘Cause we want you to win. This cannot be the way forward. I’ve been trying to eat leafy greens all summer. I’m trying to be healthy, but now I’m stuck with donuts. You see what y’all did to me? Anyway, I’m Brittany Packnett Cunningham, and this is Undistracted.

On the show today we have author and YouTuber Brian Tyler Cohen here to talk about his new book, The Day After: How to Wield Power in a Post-Trump World. And we have our group chat bestie back in action, Dr. David Johns, here to talk about untrending news. We are at the halfway point of Trump’s second term, and my guest today says that the real question isn’t just what’s happening right now, but what do we do the day after?

Brian Tyler Cohen is the number one New York Times bestselling author of Shameless and the host of No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen podcast, as well as a prodigious YouTuber with five million subscribers. You’re gonna have to give some tips ’cause we’re new over here. But Brian’s new book, The Day After: How to Wield Power in a Post-Trump World, is out now, and it argues that Democrats keep losing because, quote, “Strong and wrong beats weak and right.”

Weak and right? Oh yeah, we’re gonna have to get in this all the way. Brian, welcome to Undistracted.

Brian Tyler Cohen: Thank you so much for having me. Excited to be here.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Thanks for being here. So, listen, we ask the same question to all of our guests every time we get started. Give me three words for how you’re doing today.

Brian Tyler Cohen: Bruised but fighting

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Bruised? Okay, you can give me more than three words, ’cause that’s a good one. Bruised but fighting. Tell me more.

Brian Tyler Cohen: Look, I think, um, obviously there’s nobody who denies the extent to which this is a diff- difficult political environment to live in. Um- Yeah … but, but the reality is I wouldn’t be doing what I’m doing, I’m sure you wouldn’t be doing what you’re doing, if we didn’t think that there was some hope for a better future, if we didn’t think that, uh, there was an opportunity to get past the, the, the MAGA Republican Party.

And so- Yeah … I, I, I, I have no choice but to take that optimism forward and recognize that this is not just, not just an environment where people are despairing, but I think that despair is engineered. I think that- Mm … the, the Trump administration knows exactly what it’s doing. Steve Bannon has talked about flooding the zone with shit and, and making people feel like they’re inundated with all of this bad news so that they can engineer a sense of help- helplessness.

Yeah. And, and yet even despite all of that, we’re in a moment where we watch people taking to the streets by the millions. We watch folks showing up in these special elections and these off-year elections- Mm-hmm … and overcoming their 2024 margins by 10, 15 points in Lat- some Latino communities are seeing over-performances by 30 or 40 points.

So- Mm … that gives me some hope in terms of fighting into the future and, uh, and, and I, uh, I, I do feel some sense of cautious optimism for- Yeah … for what that future holds.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: We like hope around here. We like cautious optimism. Yeah. That’s precisely why we call ourselves Undistracted, ’cause we wanna stay focused on the task at hand.

And you’ve been regularly calling out this administration’s abuses of power, but I really wanna start with where I began, um, as I interest- uh, as I introduced you rather, what you say about Democrats. And, you know, people wanna get upset that we critique Democrats too much, but I don’t call this critique.

I call this free advice, and I hope that they’re listening. Yeah. You said strong and wrong beats weak and right, and l- they need to go ahead and pay attention to this free advice that you’re giving them. Talk to us a little bit about what you mean by that. What are you specifically calling weak here, even if it’s right?

Brian Tyler Cohen: I think that we have seen for so long the Democratic Party be defined by- Strongly worded letters I think is a great microcosm- Mm … for what we’ve seen on the left. Look, the, the Republicans were smart in the sense that they became the party of tearing institutions down. And so- Mm-hmm … a knee-jerk reflex from the left is, “Okay, they’re, they’re tearing those institutions down.

We have to be the defender of all of these- Mm-hmm … institutions. We have to be the defender of these processes and norms and traditions and the filibuster- Yeah … and the parliamentarian.” And the reality is that the American people told us in 2024 that these institutions aren’t worth protecting because they’re not delivering for regular people.

You’ve heard the stat 40% of Americans can’t afford a $400 emergency. Mm-hmm. Would you wanna be the party that defends the institutions that ushered in outcomes like that? Um- Yeah … so, so I think that they were smart to recognize that we don’t have to be so precious about all of our institutions. They’re not sacrosanct, certainly not as sacrosanct as we’ve been led to believe.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Brian Tyler Cohen: But I think the difference is that- Trump and Republicans have y- have s- have destroyed those institutions for their own self-enrichment and for the Trump family’s enrichment and to build- Mm-hmm … vanity projects as a, as an homage to dear leader. I think Democrats can and must do it, but with a focus on outcomes, with a focus on delivering people healthcare.

Yeah. I argue in the book that the time for universal healthcare has c- ha- has come. The fact that we’re the only country in the industrialized world that doesn’t have it is absolutely insane. That’s right. We have to have a new, a new Voting Rights Act after the Supreme Court gutted this, a new Freedom To Vote Act.

We need to make sure that Black representation is not completely eliminated from the South- Mm-hmm … as it’s being right now. So, so that’s what I argue in this book, that, that we need to start taking the same mentality as Republicans do in terms of our institutions, but you can do it for virtuous reasons.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Brian, I’ve been so obsessed with this framework called The Three Earths, which is co-authored by a friend of the pod, Ai-jen Poo, and in it, she and her co-author really talk about the fact that Earth One was this fading liberal democracy where those very institutions you refer to are deeply, deeply imperfect, um, and are not serving everybody well by design, but that they’re at least functional.

You can get out and vote. You can reasonably pick up the phone and call your member of Congress and know that you’ll possibly be listened to, right? That that is Earth One. But Earth Two is really where we are now, the time that you see that those institutions are deeply fragile and almost futile, and that with someone’s snap of their finger, they can totally erode them, um, without any thought or reasoning or even legality.

We’re definitely in Earth Two right now, and that chaos and crisis moment is intentional. Earth Three is the Earth that we deserve, and the framework is constantly reminding us of two things. One, that Earth Three has to be built r- right now, while we’re in Earth Two. We cannot wait. But number two, it reminds us that we can’t build Earth Three while we’re in Earth Two if we’re busy pretending that we’re still in Earth One.

And so many of the things you talk about are examples of folks pretending like we are still in Earth One and acting as though the house is not on fire.

Brian Tyler Cohen: So, the interesting thing is that when Republicans take power, they wield it in a no holds manner. They start- enacting their agenda, they’ll completely strip away abortion rights, completely strip away the Voting Rights Act, seek to disenfranchise as many Democratic voters or Black Americans or Brown Americans as they can- Mm-hmm

unleash ICE into the streets to commit crimes with impunity, allow the executive branch to commit criminal acts with impunity and try and codify it into law at the Supreme Court. And so, this is what it looks like when we have unbridled, unapologetic Republican governance. When Democrats take control, the first thing they do is seek to offer up goodwill or bipartisanship or compromise with the right.

And so, our platonic ideal- Mm-hmm … of Democratic governance is always, “Okay- … how can we water this down so that we can get buy-in from the other side?” And so, you see- Yeah … when I say that, like, you can see the asymmetric warfare that we’re contending with right now, where when one side has power, they use it for themselves and their own agenda- Mm-hmm

even if it’s unpopular, even if it’s illegal. And when the other side has power, the first thing they do is say, “How can we get those people to buy in?” And, you know, the ACA is a good example of that because we had this opportunity- Mm-hmm … with full control of government to pass, um, landmark, uh, uh, healthcare legislation, and the first thing that, that happened was Obama asking Republicans what it would take to get their votes and, and diluting it for them, and then none of them voted for it anyway.

And so, I think- Hmm … we have to start learning these messages, as you explained, um, s- so articulately about the fact that we are not in Earth One anymore, and so we have to stop playing by Earth One rules. Um, this is a Republican party that doesn’t think that Democrats have the right to govern, and so we can continue to, to confer goodwill onto the other side.

It’s not gonna be reciprocated. It wasn’t reciprocated- Yeah … in the Clinton years, wasn’t reciprocated in the Obama years, certainly wasn’t s- reciprocated in the Biden years. And so, what I argue here is that we have to start governing in accordance with our agenda. Not so that- Mm-hmm … we can usher in this elusive bipartisanship or this kumbaya era of politics.

Just enact your agenda, an agenda that is- Yeah … by the way, more popular. It’s more popular on climate. It’s more popular on ending subsidies for fossil fuels. It’s more popular on expanding healthcare to people. It’s more popular on raising the min- minimum wage. It’s more popular on expanding voting rights.

Mm-hmm. All of these things have popular support, so instead of trying to go back to Earth One and, and make this, like, Tip O’Neill kumbaya era- … of politics that isn’t gonna- Right … come, we have to just start delivering. And if Republicans wanna be on the outs, if they wanna be the ones not voting for this popular stuff, that’s their prerogative, but political gravity exists, and they’re gonna have to deal with that at the ballot box.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: And you’re right. If you’ve got the power, why not use the power to create your version of the world? This just happens to be a version of the world that is deeply popular, progressive, and that will do better by far more people. You would think- Yeah … that we would be willing to have that kind of courage, but it occurs to me, Brian, um- When I look at Congress in particular, and across the country, the kind of truth-telling and the kind of backbone that we’re talking about right now that we really need especially against Trump and these wannabe authoritarians, the people that have that are like AOC, Summer Lee, Jayapal, uh, Justice Brown Jackson and her incredible dissents that I wish- Yeah

were a precedent opinion. It’s a bunch of women of color. So yes, how do we turn the party around? I mean, we’re big fans of Jon Ossoff, but also if we want to get to the kind of power and unapologetic wielding of it that we’re talking about, the people who keep putting the proof in the pudding are Black and Brown women who have honestly not just talked about the fighting spirit, but shown it the entire time.

Personally, I don’t think we need any more grand planters. So like, what is it going to take for people, and I’ll be honest with you, especially white people and white men, to get behind the Black and Brown women who don’t have Nazi tattoos and have been showing- … and proving for us the entire time?

Brian Tyler Cohen: You know, there was a really instructive moment that I think puts on full display what you’re saying, and that was that AOC was running to be the chair of the Oversight Committee, and Gerry Connolly was also- Mm-hmm

running to be the chair of the Oversight Committee. And because the way the party had, I don- I don’t know, rewarded seniority-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah …

Brian Tyler Cohen: AOC, who is hands down the best messenger on the left, the most popular messenger on the left, the most charismatic and articulate messenger on the left, somebody who has the kind of ability to communicate with her audience that everybody else on the left c- uh, collectively wishes that they had- Mm-hmm

They had the opportunity to elevate her onto this position, and instead that position went to Gerry Connolly, who would die five months later. Hoo. But still, there, there wasn’t enough of a barrier as far as these oth- as far as these other Democrats were concerned, uh, into putting AOC above him. And, and we squandered that opportunity.

And, and look, I think Robert Garcia is doing an excellent job, and I’m- Mm-hmm … I’m grateful that, that we have him atop, uh, oversight right now, uh, as the ranking member, but i- we would be fools not to acknowledge the fact that we squandered an amazing opportunity to elevate to one of the most important positions the best messenger that we have.

Yeah. Um, and so I think that, that that has to be a wake-up call to the Democratic Party writ large to recognize that in these instances where we have these people who are immensely talented, that we are going to keep losing until we recognize, uh, u- until we recognize the voices who are actually best re- most resonant with, with the communities that they represent and the, and the party itself.

So, you know, look, I, I think that the onus is on certainly folks like me, um, a- and- Mm-hmm … and other commentators in this space, and the base more broadly to, uh, to push back when we have a party that is just frankly not listening, not acting in the best interest of, of the future of this party. Losing the culture war, so to speak, to Dem- Yeah

to Republicans in 2024, if that’s not a blinking red light that we have got to, to embrace a party that is younger and more charismatic and more tech-savvy, uh, than we had before, I, I don’t know what is.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: So okay, so we’ve got plenty of white folks in our Undistracted community. Yeah. I want you to give the message right now, and I’m gonna clip it and I’m gonna send it to all my white guy friends and be like, “Brian says so.”

Like g- fall in line. What, what’s the message?

Brian Tyler Cohen: Yeah, I think the message right here is when we have the base of the Democratic Party that is largely these, these strong, uh, uh, articulate Black women, women like AOC, who have proven to the, to the vast majority of Americans that she best represents our ideals, whether it’s on climate, whether it’s on healthcare, whether it’s on workers’ dignity, you name it, those are the people that we need to elevate in this party.

Those are the people who have proven that she can, that, that she can, uh, reach the vast majority of Americans with what she says and, and, uh, and people are responding in kind. So hopefully this will be a lesson, uh, to the party more broadly that if you are looking for a way to resonate with audiences, we’ve already got it, it’s just a matter of elevating someone like that to the forefront.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: And that, Democrats, is free advice, all right? Let’s talk about some more free advice that, that folks need to get. You’ve done, thankfully, a lot of coverage about Epstein and the Epstein files.

Brian Tyler Cohen: Yeah.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: And I really wanna ask you about the lasting impact of the crisis around his abuse and its coverup. We obviously recently saw Epstein survivors attend the confirmation hearings of Todd Blanche.

One testified. Um, there are other folks, unfortunately though, Graham Platner, um, uh, who have credible accusations of sexual assaults against them, but it’s unclear to me, as big of an issue as this is to you and to me and so many others, it’s unclear to me when we will get to the point where these kind of accusations are actually disqualifying, and we actually treat survivors well and listen to them.

So, like, how do we not only get these files released, but how do we get to the point where they’re not just a political point against Trump, but actually a disqualifying, um, fact for higher office? You

Brian Tyler Cohen: know, in large part I think that- The Swalwell situation and the Platner situation are a step in the right direction.

I, I think to a degree that in the same way cowardice begets cowardice, that courage- Mm … begets courage, and I hope that in this new iteration of what the Democratic Party can look like, because I, I, the Democratic Party doesn’t know what it is right now. Mm. It is, it, it is a mix of, like, these old guard establishment figures and a new, younger, more progressive, uh, um, a slate of, of candidates who are coming up, all vying, jockeying for position to see who’s going to, like, lead us into the Democratic Party of the future.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Brian Tyler Cohen: I think in this moment we are, we have the ability, and frankly the obligation, to set the stage for what is and is not acceptable, and I think that in large part as we’re figuring that out, there is a tendency to sacrifice cer- certain things in deference to others. And so, you know, you had mentioned Graham Platner in the beginning, and there, there is this idea that, okay, we have, like, a very hall monitor-esque party That, that exists on the left right now.

And so- Yeah … as a result of that, we need to compen- we need to overcompensate. We need to get somebody who sure may be p- problematic, but looks like, looks like what a Republican looks like. And I think what we’re learning right now, and, and this is hard-fought and won, and requires growing pains obviously, but what we’re learning right now is that you can both have somebody who is willing to fight for their values and certainly who can communicate in a, in a more relatable way than I think, you know, our, you know, Democratic lawmakers who’ve been in office for 30 years, uh, can communicate with people, but that, that doesn’t have to come with compromises to their character.

Yeah. And I think that that’s something that w- we didn’t know because it felt like, okay, well I’m so desperate for somebody who knows how to fight and isn’t an establishment figure, uh, and isn’t willing to take heaps of money from outside groups or special interests, and so, you know, if, if there are, if there are compromises I have to make, then so be it.

But we don’t have to make those compromises. And, and I think that, you know, it takes somebody like Graham Platner for us to, to feel those growing plain- growing pains and, and see that like, no, you know what? In fact, uh, character matters a hell of a lot more than I think we’re giving ourselves credit for.

And, you know, in a way I think that we are fortunate to have gotten there so quickly, um, and to have gotten there at a point where we can still replace him. Um, and now I think, uh, uh, f- forgive me, I can’t remember his name, Troy Jackson if I’m not mistaken- Yeah … is gonna be the, the replacement. But, but…

‘Cause it could’ve been worse. It… We could have found this stuff out months from now and then been stuck with him.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah. Black Mainers, um, uh, young progressives in the party who said, “Actually, this is not a moral sacrifice that we have to make, and frankly we shouldn’t, because asking people to continue to make these moral sacrifices is exactly why people are pissed off at the party now.”

Yeah. If we had listened to those folks, perhaps Troy would’ve been on the ticket the entire time. Yeah. Perhaps if we had listened when, uh, folks said that about John Fetterman, we might not be here, right? So, to the point that you made earlier, there are people who have proven to make correct predictions about who and what people have to show to show themselves strong for us.

Um, and you know, it, it could’ve been worse, but it could’ve been a whole lot better. Yeah. Okay. I

Brian Tyler Cohen: mean, that’s, yeah.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Let’s talk about if it is better. If,

Brian Tyler Cohen: if that, if that is not the whole ethos of the left- Right … summed up in a- It could’ve been worse … summed up in just a couple of words.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: But it could’ve been better.

Brian Tyler Cohen: Yeah.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Um, maybe that’s the title of the episode. It could’ve been worse, but it definitely could’ve been better.

Brian Tyler Cohen: Title of, the title of our times.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Right. This is the, the, the cha- this chapter of America is called It

Brian Tyler Cohen: Could’ve

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Been Worse- Yeah.

Brian Tyler Cohen: Yeah … But It Definitely Could’ve Been Better. This is the new iteration of it was the best of times, it was the worst of times.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: And some days I don’t even know if it could be worse. Some days- Yeah … it feels like the absolute worst it could be. But let’s think about a best-case scenario. Let’s move forward to January 2027. Let’s say that the Democrats, and I’ll add Democratic Socialists, Working Families Party, where they have a real runway, they crush the midterms.

We’ve got people that we’re excited about in office. What should Democrats, progressives- who have the power of the pen be doing in January if that happens? Like, is this the time for impeachment, especially if the party regains more control in general? Like, before we close, I have to ask you what those BHAGs are, those big, hairy, audacious goals.

I don’t know if you remember that phrase, but- … even Kamala Harris has been saying there are no bad ideas. We need to put it all on the table. What are those BHAGs, those big, hairy, audacious goals we should be setting in January, should we actually send a clear message in these midterms?

Brian Tyler Cohen: Even with what limited power we’ll have, we can and must, at a bare minimum, use the positions that we have in Congress to start investigating the corruption that we have on a daily basis right now.

I mean, there are stock sales that happen where somebody’ll buy up or sell up-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Right …

Brian Tyler Cohen: a ton of stocks. Five minutes later, Trump makes some announcement, the market surges or crashes. That’s going uninvestigated. We have right now, um, Donald Trump making money hand over fist, uh, through his crypto and meme coin and stable coin ventures.

We know that- Mm-hmm … foreign governments like UAE are investing in the president’s crypto ventures. That’s not being investigated. So, all of this stuff is happening in broad daylight. We’re seeing real estate deals being traded for favorable terms on tariffs. It feels like corruption is legal in this era, and frankly, it is.

Because when you see that friends of the administration or friends of the Republican Party- Mm-hmm … commit some crime, pay some money to Donald Trump via some vehicle he’s put forward, and then all of a sudden, they get a pardon, they get let out of jail, they get their sentences commuted, you name

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: it. They get their, um, positive FDA tests overturned and can run-

Brian Tyler Cohen: Correct

again. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, just the, the v- the rampant corruption right now I think has caused a lot of people, rightfully, to feel completely disaffected that government can work. Um, it can work, but you cannot, you cannot just allow corruption to run rampant, and I think that Democrats can show that they’re willing to use the power that’s given to them, even if they can’t do it legislatively, knowing full well that Trump- Uh-huh

isn’t gonna sign anything. Hell, he wouldn’t even sign his own housing law that he campaigned on. So, this guy’s not gonna offer up any, any legislative wins, but you can absolutely use the power that you have to investigate this stuff, and frankly, you should. And if there’s any audience that will recognize the importance of rooting out corruption, it is a Republican audience that’s been groomed-

over the last four years when we’ve been talking about Hunter Biden selling a painting, to now recognize that- Yeah … when his kids are getting hundreds of millions of dollars in military defense contracts, that’s bad, too. And so, I think- Mm … that, you know, in the immediate term, we have to use what power we have to show people that it’s worth it to vote for Democrats in the first place.

Because they will wield that power in whatever avenue they can. And so, I think the corruption, um… And Jon Ossoff, you, who you mentioned before, is a great example of being- Mm-hmm … uh, particularly focused on, on the pernicious nature of this kind of corruption. But I, I wanna answer your question about impeachment, and this may be a controversial answer, but the thesis of this book is that we can’t do things where we just notch symbolic victories.

It’s not enough to just- Mm-hmm … get caught trying. And I would argue that we know that even if we go through the whole process of impeaching Donald Trump in the House, and then going to a conviction trial in the Senate, that there’s not gonna be 67 votes to impeach him. Yeah. And so, if I’m being consistent here, and if I’m saying we can’t just win symbolic victories, we actually have to do stuff that’s gonna, that’s gonna deliver meaningful lasting change, then I have to be consistent and say that I also don’t think that we should impeach him knowing full well that it’s not going to amount to anything.

This is a Republican Party that is completely obsequious to Donald Trump. So, unless there’s some elusive avenue to 67 votes- Mm-hmm … I would argue don’t waste your time on losing battles. That is what has d- has defined the Democratic Party for so long, and I’m tired of getting caught trying. We have to do stuff that we know at the end of the line is actually gonna amount to something.

So, you know- Yes … keep your eye on the ball, focus on stuff that’s actually gonna deliver. There’s enough corruption to investigate to show people that you’re willing to take this seriously. So, begin investigating that, lay the foundation for a future Democratic Department of Justice to pick up the ball where you left off.

Hello. And that will actually deliver on some of the things that we’re campaigning on, as opposed to engaging in a politiciz- politicized process that’s gonna amount to nothing.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: And what I find interesting is that some of these big ideas, going after the corruption, setting up that kind of Department of Justice, or even expanding the Supreme Court, looking at the Electoral College, these things all feel deeply radical to people.

But my definition of radical matches what Angela Davis said, that radical simply means getting to the root. And even in the book, you talk about, um, things that feel radical now but have historical precedent. You talk about Lincoln’s approach, for example, to the Supreme Court. What are those seemingly radical things that should absolutely be on the table right now?

Brian Tyler Cohen: So, I argue that we do need to expand the Supreme Court, and here’s why. There is a historical imperative to do so. The number of Supreme Court seats has always comported with the number of federal court circuits. Back in the 1800s, there were six, and there were, uh, uh, six federal court circuits, six Supreme Court justices.

Eventually, that number went up to nine, so we had nine federal court circuits, nine Supreme Court justices. Now we have 13 federal court circuits, but still only nine Supreme Court justices. Number nine is not in the Constitution. It’s not sacrosanct. It’s only there because of norms, because of traditions.

That number’s been changed in modern times. Mitch McConnell decided to change that number from nine to eight for a year to keep Merrick Garland- Yeah … off the court because God forbid you, uh, allow a Supreme Court nominee to get a hearing in an election year, unless of course, that person is Amy Coney Barrett, who gets her hearing while voting is underway.

Correct. Yeah. So that number has been changed, but there’s also a moral imperative to do this, and that is that if we accomplish the Herculean feat that is winning the House, winning the Senate, winning the White House, passing progressive legislation, if we don’t do something about the Supreme Court, then we’re making a conscious decision to leave in place a rogue branch of government that can and will block any reform, any legislation that was passed.

And so brings me back to the question that I’ve been asking this entire time, which is, is it enough to notch a symbolic victory? Mm-hmm. Is it enough to get caught trying, or do you want durable, meaningful, lasting change? And if it’s the latter, then you cannot leave in place a court that can and will, uh, uh, block any of that pr- progressive legislation

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: durable, meaningful, lasting change.

Brian, thank you for coming here to give the Democrats and their acolytes some free advice that I hope that they’re not taking as critique, but taking as some of the best, uh, some of the best consulting they didn’t have to pay for. All right? For the rest of us, we’ll make sure to buy the book. Thanks so much- Thank you

for joining us here at Undistracted.

Brian Tyler Cohen: I really appreciate it. Thanks so much.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I’m joined today once again for Untrending News with our group chat bestie, as well as CEO and executive director of the National Black Justice Collective. By the way, I say that, like, every week, and I don’t even know if people really understand just how important the National Black Justice Collective is.

David, give us the- Thanks, friend … 30-second NBJC commercial.

Dr. David Johns: I receive and appreciate that. We are the nation’s only civil rights organization intentionally at the intersections of civil rights, typically Black people stuff, and what is considered LGBTQ rights, translated as what people assume is white people stuff.

But we honor that there would be nothing without us, that being Africa, the birthplace of everything. And stuff- The intersection … doing the work to ensure that we can all get free. There we go. Yeah, the key intersection. There

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: you go. And where can people find and support the work of NBJC?

Dr. David Johns: NBJC.org and NBJC On the Move across platforms.

Thanks, friend.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I know. That’s all right. I just wanna make sure everybody was caught up because you all are remaining undistracted at NBJC even though you find some time, some type of way to spend time with us here on the group chat. So- I

Dr. David Johns: do …

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: you know David, ’cause you live four minutes away, and I appreciate you checking on me, friend.

I was down bad last week As I shared with you all, I did not have the poo-poo parasite. Right. I.E., AKA, cyclospora. Mm-hmm. But a whole lot of people did, okay? We need to talk about it. Thousands of people in 34 states- Right … but most famously Michigan, are suspected to have gotten it. The most commonly cited source thus far has been, of course, the healthy stuff, the lettuce.

Right. Allegedly provided by this mass supplier, Taylor Farms. And please tell me how it was the TikTok investigators and the Threads detectives that uncovered that Taylor Farms has allegedly been connected to a number of other recalled lettuce on Saturday as recently as 2024, but also back in 2013, right?

Like, they’ve been on the case because the FDA tested the lettuce on Saturday and claimed to have found the parasite present, but then the next thing you know, the CEO of Taylor Farms is at a meeting at the White House, and the next day after that, the FDA said, “What? What positive test?” We’re sorry. That was a false, a false positive.

That same Sunday they were like, “No, we were just playing.” So I don’t wanna traffic in conspiracy theories, however, we do definitely know that RFK Jr.’s CDC removed this parasite and others from their mandatory surveillance list, and they’ve also reduced funding for programs that track parasites like cyclospora.

So, we have an administration, factually, not allegedly, that has removed important health information from government websites, and we know that oh boy- Yeah … President Homeboy likes to do favors for his supporters. So, David-

Dr. David Johns: Yeah … how are

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: we supposed to stay safe in this poo-poo parasite situation? I was trying to eat lettuce.

I was trying to be healthy. I was gonna have myself some little summer salads. And washing the lettuce, even though that’s necessary, doesn’t even fix this problem. What is gonna do, Friend?

Dr. David Johns: It, it does not. The thing that will fix this problem, so that we are clear, is to vote this November during the election, because this administration is working to ensure that none of us are safe.

It ain’t safe. It ain’t safe. It ain’t safe. And that is by design. And as I experience watching you try to negotiate actually eating a meal, in so many ways it is difficult, if not impossible, to navigate around the consequences of this administration trading- Hello … trading what were standards and procedures to help us be more safe in exchange for additional grift.

And all of us should be, um, stupefied and flabbergasted by exactly what you described- Hello … that they could trace a single lettuce leaf back to a field in central Mexico overnight, but the rule that would trace it as fast for all of us, that would prevent some-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm …

Dr. David Johns: of these things from happening, has been delayed to 2028 because the industry has lobbied this administration successfully to do so.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Because you see how fast they said, “Blame the Mexicans.”

Dr. David Johns: Mm-hmm. “

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Blame the immigrants.” Mm-hmm. Do you see how quickly they pointed the finger at Taco Bell? Do you see how fast they pointed their finger at farm workers? And now that the, the TikTok investigators are on the case, they’re finding reported abuses of Taylor Farms workers.

Right. They’re finding all of the ways that Taylor Farms has reportedly, allegedly been quite dishonest for a very long time. And what’s terrifying here is we’re, we’re not just talking about the power of the CDC. We’re also talking about the power of oligarchs- That’s right … and what billionaires are doing to our food sources, because Taylor Farms supplies a whole bunch of fast food restaurants.

That’s right. They supply a whole bunch of grocery stores. They supply bagged lettuce and chain restaurants. Like, we can say, “Oh, yeah, I’m gonna boycott Taylor Farms,” but do you know how many names and subsidiaries their products are coming under? No. Like, the truth of the matter is there are so few people who have their hands on what ends up coming to us that one failure can affect millions of people in all of these different spaces, and we will be so unsuspecting, not only because this government ain’t trying to tell us nothing, but because we won’t even be able to fully tell what’s coming from where because they’re not interested in being transparent with us.

So, I really just want us, to your point, to understand that elections are not everything, but they do have consequences. And poo-poo lettuce is one of them. Suffice it to say, please, please, please look through reputable sources who will tell you that simply washing your lettuce and washing your leafy greens is not enough.

You need to cook your, uh, vegetables to a certain temperature until this is resolved, and if you can’t cook them, go eat something else. Go to Dunkin’ Donuts like I did. Should have. Okay. Speaking of how treacherous these people are, I wanna talk about this new flavor of, uh, quote, unquote, “research” coming out of the Heritage Foundation.

Now you see why I say quote, unquote. Yes, I- Which, of course, as you know, were the authors of Project 2025. So last week they published a report that argues basically that Title IX By encouraging women into sports has made women lose their, quote, “feminine graces” and become, quote, “too aggressive.” This report even alleges that women’s sports can make women infertile.

Dr. David Johns: Yeah. How about that?

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: There are policy recommendations in this document too, as if the thing wasn’t scary enough. Um, and those policy recommendations are around changing the way women’s sports get funded. So you telling me that you were trying to protect the women by ensuring- Right … that no trans woman could play the sports, but you actually don’t want the women to play the sports at all because we become too aggressive, too masculine, not feminine enough, and we don’t have enough of your babies.

Dr. David Johns: That’s right.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: David, what’s your take here?

Dr. David Johns: Mm, if we must. So, I want us to take the- I want us to take the social science with a boulder of salt in the case of the Heritage Foundation and this report- Uh-huh … but take the intent, uh, with the, uh, seriousness that this deserves. Yeah. So, this is all one project with multiple doors.

It’s the same institution and the same season. As you said, one paper telling cis women that they’ve been engineered out of their feminine graces, and then there’s this coordinated attack that works to ban trans girls and women from the sports entirely. Then on the other end-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Make it make sense …

Dr. David Johns: too aggressive, right?

So it, it- The way to make it sense is for us to appreciate that two things: one, when they come for any definition of woman, they’ll never stop at, at anything that has a prefix, including in this moment trans woman. They’re gonna come- Hello …

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: for

Dr. David Johns: all women, and they always come hardest for Black women whose athleticism, whose bodies, whose very womanhood has been questioned and policed on this continent and others- Mm-hmm

for hundreds of years. Ask Serena Williams. Yeah. Ask Caster Semenya. This is old water in a new bottle, and in fact it’s a Dasani bottle. The other thing is that I want us to follow this- old trash water. Trash. I want us to follow this to the administrative end, right to it, to the, to the, to the goal of the effort, which is it doesn’t end at rosters.

This ends at fertility. That’s right. Claiming competitive sports disrupts menstruation and that moderate exercise better serves motherhood, we should all be clear that the destination was never the scoreboard. It was and remains the delivery room. They want to control what women are able to do with their bodies.

This was never about policing or protecting women’s sports. It is about protecting this very old idea about what a woman is for. And every generation- Yeah … they are just finding a new document to smuggle these old ass patriarchal ideas into, and we’ve read this one before. Um, it, it, another version of what they’re, they’re c- they’re, they are attempting to legislate in this way administratively is called a marriage contract.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. You better teach. This is the thing, right? The consistency of their desire to erode women’s humanity and dignity through eroding our rights is one of the few trains that will always run on time with these folks.

Dr. David Johns: Yeah.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: The tradwives have been weaponized by these people to try and erode women’s sense of independence.

You don’t need to work outside the home. You don’t need your own job, your own money, your own bank account. In your parents. Absolutely. You don’t need your own credit card because the man will control everything for you. Go live your soft life, girly. But a bunch of them former tradwives will tell you they were living their soft life till their husband decided to up and leave them, and they have no money, no coin, no job, no resume to speak of.

They have no experience, no connections, and they had no control over their lives- That’s right … or the lives of their children- That’s right … because they were, of course, left with their children when their husband walked away. That’s right. Okay, so that’s number one. Number two, a bunch of these tradwives and a, a bunch of college students in particular have come back and said, “You know, I don’t, I don’t know that I really need this whole voting rights thing.”

“Like, I just let my, I just let my dad vote for me. And then I’ll get married, and then I’ll let my husband vote for me.” And like, excuse me? I’m so sorry. The ghost of Sojourner Truth should haunt you for the rest of your natural life.

Dr. David Johns: And your baby’s life too. Because…

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: And these are all messengers of this same paradigm.

Dr. David Johns: Yeah.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: That these contracts, the marriage contracts, the social contracts that women should be forced to sign are ones that give us no control over our own bodies- Yeah … no control over our own futures- Yeah … no control over the policies that will dictate our lives. All of this is purposeful. All of this is intentional.

And I get really sick of these so-called women- Who decide that they’re going to volunteer for their own- oppression … oppression. Yep. Y’all, y’all- Yep … gonna have to go somewhere with that ’cause I’m not down with it. Okay. Before we go, we gotta talk about this World Cup. Now-

Dr. David Johns: All right …

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: the real winner of this World Cup, in my opinion-

Dr. David Johns: Okay

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: is Shakira, Shakira. Okay. Okay, let me tell you why. Bieber gave this, like, oddly mellow performance, and then after that the camera- That’s a beautiful picture … quickly cuts to Shakira, and the hips were not lying. She’s in full energy. She’s performing the World Cup’s official anthem, “Dai Dai,” and, like, what’s going on while the camera is panning across this entire beautiful tapestry that she has built just shook me in the best way.

Because I wanna be real clear, I’m not even really that big of a football fan, but I know for sure I wasn’t really rooting for Spain. I was definitely rooting against Argentina ’cause it was like, oh, colonizer versus racist. Uh, y’all got me. Oh, yeah. But, um, but, like, shout out to Spain, right? Shout out to the millions, billions of football fans all around the world.

But what I really loved about this moment that Shakira put together was you saw the Latin diaspora, the African diaspora, the Black diaspora on full display in this beautiful, like, meld of music and dance. There were Ugandan children who were dancing. Um, there were so many, uh, instruments and melodies and rhythms and beats that you could see, like, our, our, our cultures fusion, fusing together.

Yeah. Yeah. And so, like, even as somebody who doesn’t follow football very closely, I appreciate what the World Cup does to communicate a sense of global solidarity- Yeah … even when it wants to not. The music in particular helps it do that anyway, um, as well as the stars of many colors that, um, you j- you just can’t avoid how excellent they are.

But with all of that beautiful diasporic talent- Burna Boy was like all the way in the back. Like, he was like practically a backup dancer. And I- we’re old enough, David, to remember when, uh, like in the early aughts when Shakira started becoming popular in the US, and all of these people were like, “I ain’t never heard of no Shakira.

She not famous.” Period. Uh-huh. And the rest of the world was like- What’s up, though? … “Actually, she’s famous everywhere but here. She’s-” Period. She sells way more records than a bunch of your American pop stars. Period. And I feel the same way about people like Burna Boy. Like, there are so many stars across the diaspora and in Afrobeats that like actually are huge across the world and people act like are not anything in American markets.

Period. Burna Boy will sell out a show in the DMV right now.

Dr. David Johns: Period.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Back to back to back.

Dr. David Johns: In most places

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: he’ll sell out- So why, like why was he… It was so beautiful, but I just didn’t understand why he was all the way in the

Dr. David Johns: back. I didn’t understand that either. Maybe he just wanted to give Shakira her space, right?

Maybe he was- Maybe that’s it … practicing the kind of, um- Okay … masculine identity that we want more of our brothers- Okay … and men, uh, to offer. Maybe he was being a good co-conspirator. Maybe- Okay … maybe he also was atoning for the, the bullshit that he put, uh, our, our, our sister, uh, Bailey through Oh. I don’t know that, right?

Well, now that’s true. So- And we do love Chloe … we love Chloe. We, we love Halle too, but I mean, maybe it has to do with all that. So I, I honestly don’t know. What I will say is the combination of the two of them, um, and then also the, uh, Ugandan kids who came up dancing and that-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah … the

Dr. David Johns: backyard, like I- I believe everybody, yeah

I very much appreciated what you described, which is that on one of the world’s largest stages, the, the sound was the birthplace of everything. It was Afrobeats. Yeah. It was a global sound that permeates so much of the music that we know, um, and that they also love but don’t know its origin, so I wanna be clear about that.

So- Mm … respectfully, I want to celebrate that we didn’t tune in for Spain and Argentina, we tuned in for that.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm. Shakira, Shakira, all

Dr. David Johns: day. Shakira, Shakira with the hips, right? The opposite of quiet on the creek. So, Jay-Z wants us to watch the throne, but I think we should watch the gap. So, while we’re celebrating the joy part of this- Mm-hmm.

I also want us to notice who the world stage chose to center, and then remember- Mm-hmm … who this country in particular and so many others are trying to push off of every other stage. So, the same summer that gave us this Uganda dance crew headlining the World Cup, our government is making it harder for African students, African visitors- Hello

African families to get here and stay here. We could have a whole nother conversation about ICE and the-

Brian Tyler Cohen: Mm-hmm …

Dr. David Johns: the shit going on over there. And so, in the space of us appreciating that, um, culture often opens a door, that policy is a try- is trying to slam it shut in this moment. Yeah. And we should always say the quiet part out loud, which is that the world will happily consume Black and Brown joy, even for 11 minutes at a halftime, but then spend- Mm-hmm

90 and the rest of the year legislating against the people who make it possible. And we should trouble that. We should disrupt that. We should hold those who profit from all of that, including our pain, accountable.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Just like we should complicate the fact that Madonna can get up there and sing one of her most famous tracks that comes out of queer Black and Brown ballroom culture called Vogue- Yeah

while this country is actively and intentionally dismantling the rights of our queer siblings. So to your point, if y’all want to be entertained by it, make sure you legislate like you respect it. Otherwise, what are we really talking about here? But Shakira’s hips never lie, and that is always- Period … a thing to celebrate.

Dr. David J. Johns, thank you once again for joining us here at the Group Chat. Of course. We’ll see you real soon.

Dr. David Johns: Always a fun time. Thank you, Friend.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: In my conversation with Brian, you heard him say that winning back the House and the Senate is indeed a Herculean task. He’s 1000% right about it. These folks know that they’re not gonna win elections that they don’t steal, which is why they’re busy trying to break down Black representation and voting rights all across the American South, and really the entire country.

That’s why the work of Freedom Summer is so necessary, and why we need every single one of you to remember that voting is not the only tool in our toolbox, but it is a critical one. If it weren’t, they wouldn’t be trying to steal it from us all this time. So let’s make sure that that Herculean task is a real one so we can get about all those other things that need to be done.

And no matter what happens at this election or with this administration, no matter what happens this November 2026 or next January 2027, I know one thing for damn sure: somebody somewhere needs to tell us what happened to Nolan Xavier Wells, the young man who was found dead without explanation in Mississippi after a vacation weekend with a group of white friends.

Nolan, we will never forget you, and we will not stop speaking

Biggest applause of the night, as deserved. Thank you so much for your beautiful work. And thank you to all of you beautiful people for coming out for our live show. I’m Brittany Packnett Cunningham. Let’s go get free.

Our executive producers are Cindi Leive and myself, Brittany Packnett Cunningham.

Our producer at Collective Media is Douglas Forte with supervising producer Ryan Jones.

Our supervising producer at The Meteor is Taylor Hosking and artwork is by Bianca Alvarez.

This episode was produced with support from Liberation Ventures and The Meteor Fund.

You can follow me on all social media @mspackyetti and our incredible team @themeteor.