Please note: This transcript has been automatically generated.

Gov. Wes Moore: I didn’t run for governor to fight with the President of the United States.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Gov. Wes Moore: But I also, I’m not the governor to sit there and bend the knee to the President of the United States either. Mm-hmm. Whereas, like, I was very clear, like, I will work with anyone, but I will bow to no one.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Hey Y’all. So, you know I’m from the Lou and I’m proud, but for the last few years I have been an adopted Marylander. So that meant I had to pull up to Annapolis and ask the questions that needed answers. That’s right, I had the chance to sit down with not only Governor Wes Moore, but also First Lady Dawn Moore.

And y’all know I did not just pull up as a podcaster. I pulled up as a constituent. I bought a home here. I’m raising my children here. Listen, my husband and I are not trying to move again. So, my neighbors and I, we had questions, and again, they needed answers. I also pulled up as someone with an eye to history.

We haven’t seen a Black first family of that level since, uh, the Obamas left the White House, and there are a whole lot of people who feel a whole lot of ways about the fact that there’s a Black couple living at Government House. I also pulled up as someone who knows that we have to ask the tough questions of the politicians we like too, because that is the role of citizen.

I pulled up as someone who knows that there are some women, who the Democrats should be listening to perhaps more than they are. And listen, First Lady Dawn Moore, she’s got experience here, and she’s got some things to say. So, pull up with me to the Governor’s House and let’s stay undistracted.

Coming up, our conversation with Governor Wes Moore and First Lady Dawn Moore. And then of course, our Untrending group chat with thee, Dr. Brittney Cooper. Hey, y’all. Today we are joined by a couple whose story goes beyond politics. Governor Wes Moore made history as Maryland’s first Black governor and only the third Black governor elected in US history.

Before public office, he served in the Army. He was the CEO of the anti-poverty organization, the Robin Hood Foundation, and he became a best-selling author, including his memoir, The Other Wes Moore. Alongside him is Maryland First Lady Dawn Moore, who spent over two decades in state government and the nonprofit sector, serving as the chief of staff and director of intergovernmental affairs in the office of the lieutenant governor, Anthony Brown.

She also worked on political campaigns and acted as lead architect of her husband’s 2022 gubernatorial campaign. Together, and as parents to their two children, they’re the nation’s only Black first family in a governor’s house, leading through one of the most politically charged and tumultuous moments in recent history.

Today, in what I think is a rare joint sit-down for the two of them, we’re talking about our country, race, gender, and how they lead together. Governor Moore, First Lady Dawn Moore, welcome to Undistracted. Thank you for having us. So glad to have you here. Thank you. So listen, we start off every conversation by asking the same question.

So from each of you, how are you doing today in just three words?

First Lady Dawn Moore: Um, I would say, I think it sums it up, God is good.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: All the time. And all the time. All the time. Mm-hmm. God is good. God is good. Those are three good words right there, Governor Moore?

Gov. Wes Moore: know what? I would say, uh- Undistracted, highly favored.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Oh, okay.

I see what you did there. You like that one. That’s good. That’s, that’s good. Okay. Undistracted and highly favored. Well, you know, we love the Lord around here. Yes. We love the love. We also love progress. We love forward movement. But I feel so honored to get to speak to the both of you all, because I find your relationship so special, and such a special part of your political story.

I wanna talk a little bit about how you all met. I heard it was some aunties that- Definitely … set you all up. And I’m, I’m curious what you think they knew you would see in one another, and why you’d be a good match.

First Lady Dawn Moore: Um, I guess I’ll go first. Yes. Yeah. Um, yes, you’re right. Our aunts did introduce us. Uh, they had met on a trip together in Jamaica, in fact.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Wow.

First Lady Dawn Moore: Uh, they were not together, but they, they met each other, too. And then, um, my aunt had always heard about him. Mm-hmm. But when she met him, she said, “Oh, you need to meet my niece.” And I always joke with him, I say, “I think you probably had a lot of aunties saying you need to meet my niece.” Of course, yeah, probably.

And, um, but I think one of the things she actually said to him, funny enough, she said, “You both have service in common.” Mm. Mm-hmm. ‘Cause at the time I was working in service. Mm. I was working for, uh, the Glendening-Townsend administration. Mm-hmm. And, but I had always been committed to public service. Mm-hmm. And, um, he was at Oxford at the time, and she learned at a dinner what he cared about, and I think she thought you guys would have a lot in common.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah. Is that, is that your same story? Are you sticking to that one?

Gov. Wes Moore: Oh, no, that, that, that’s, that’s exactly right. And, and you know, and it’s funny because, um, uh, at, I think at that time I had never met anyone like her-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm …

Gov. Wes Moore: before. Like, you know, just someone who was just so- driven and, and focused. Mm-hmm. And like, I think about where it’s like the first, the, the first gift that she gave me-

First Lady Dawn Moore: Mm.

Oh,

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: okay …

Gov. Wes Moore: was a speech- Wow … from Václav Havel. I’m like, “Yo, who are you?” You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. Like I’m like, that was just- You different it. But it’s just like- Yeah … you’re just different, different. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And, and it was like, uh, you know, I, I think that there was from the first time we actually connected- Mm-hmm

I was just like, yo, like, she’s someone who she just makes me better.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm.

Gov. Wes Moore: Oh. Like, every time we connected, like- Mm-hmm … I thought about things differently, and she opened up my horizon. And frankly, it’s just continued to be like that- Yeah … now for, you know, for, for 20-plus years. Yeah. And so, uh, so I think she was just, um…

I mean, she caught me from jump. Yeah.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Oh.

Gov. Wes Moore: She caught me from jump.

First Lady Dawn Moore: I love that he remembers that. Sure. That essay is called Politics, Civility, and Morality- I feel like a lot of people could be reading that right now … by Václav

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Havel. Yes. They could pass that one out- It’s a great piece … in a pamphlet like a- Yeah. … like a tract. It’s a great piece. Yeah. But you know, Governor, every smart man I know was smart enough to marry up. And no shade.

Gov. Wes Moore: No, that’s

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: real. For all of your accomplishments, you very clearly married up.

Gov. Wes Moore: Well, let’s be clear, like, for, for all of the accomplishments- Uh-huh

they would not have happened- Mm … if you had not married up.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Gov. Wes Moore: Like, I’m just like, I, I think about this where I know good people who became great-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm …

Gov. Wes Moore: because of the people they married.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Gov. Wes Moore: Mm. I know great people, they became good-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm …

Gov. Wes Moore: because of the people that they married. Like- Uh-oh … this is, this is a real decision that you need- Yeah

to make about, like, who do you wanna spend your time with and who do you wanna build your legacy with? Mm-hmm. Like, this is not a simple decision. And that’s why, you know, for a lot of folks, like, don’t rush into this.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Gov. Wes Moore: Take your time.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Gov. Wes Moore: Grow with a person.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Gov. Wes Moore: Because the key thing is that when you first meet a person, you notice how they are growing individually.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Gov. Wes Moore: At some point you need to see how are you going to grow together.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm. Yeah.

Gov. Wes Moore: Because you become that singular unit at that point. Yeah. You become that, that, that singular force. And so, I, I’m, I’m, I’m very clear and I’m very transparent. And, and I’m like, listen, like, like my superpower- Yeah. Mm … is her.

First Lady Dawn Moore: Yeah. He’s so sweet.

Gov. Wes Moore: No, that’s real.

First Lady Dawn Moore: He’s also honest. No, but I’m

Gov. Wes Moore: being- … I’m being honest. I’m being like- Yeah. Like, I tell … It’s like, and people say like, you know, people always tell me, they’re like, you know, “She’s your secret weapon.” I was like, “It’s not so secret anymore. She’s more like open carry at

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: this point.”

Exactly. Which is smart, right? Because you talk about operating as a singular unit, and you’re doing it that in the space of service- Mm … and of policy. Yeah. But Governor, you come from a philanthropy and a finance background. Mm. You’re really the one, First Lady- … who come, came with more than 20 years of experience- That’s right

in public service, in nonprofit leadership, in government, advising state legislators- Mm-hmm … and campaigns before you all were even kind of this unit. So I’m, I’m curious, as you started to figure out how to work together, was that easeful, or did you have to negotiate how some of this was gonna go?

First Lady Dawn Moore: Yeah. You know, I don’t…

I think we were always equally yoked- Mm … in what we cared- Mm-hmm … about. Mm. And I think that, you know, my husband is the most amazing man that I know, and he is such a great leader.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm.

First Lady Dawn Moore: So, anything that, you know, has happened in this relationship started with him – … the idea. He’s such a, you know, he’s such a visionary- Mm

person, and I sort of laugh sometimes because he’s not a person who can just sit down- Mm … and not be doing anything, and he cares so much. And I often have thought about his sense of urgency in life.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

First Lady Dawn Moore: And, you know, many people know this, but he lost his father at a very young age, and I al- often feel like his sense of urgency comes from not knowing what tomorrow will bring.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm.

First Lady Dawn Moore: So, he doesn’t have time to wait on what he believes is an opportunity and a vision that he has. Mm. And so when I think about, yes, do we have this, this deep care for people, this love of people, and I have said this time and time again, “Do not allow people who don’t love you to lead you.”

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Amen to that.

First Lady Dawn Moore: I just really feel like I believe in my husband.

Mm-hmm. I think about all the things that, you know, come with this position, and, you know, of course, we’re living in a time when security is, you know, of the, one of the most, utmost importance- Mm-hmm … in this role. But I will tell anybody, as amazing as the people are around us, no one makes me feel safer, more safer than my husband.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm. Mm.

First Lady Dawn Moore: And so I just… I follow him. I follow him, and whatever I can bring to this relationship To, you know, to, to be able to make those opportunities- Mm-hmm … and dreams come true, that’s my skillset. Yeah. You know, I’m a, I’m a worker.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

First Lady Dawn Moore: I’m a worker, and I love doing this with him because it’s been such a beautiful opportunity to make the, a difference in the lives of so many people.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm. I wanna keep talking about your work because I’m old enough to remember how threatened people felt by Hillary Clinton. I have watched so many people demand and expect that Michelle Obama runs for president, but we all know what the backlash would be if she actually put her hat in the ring, besides the fact that she has said, “I don’t want it,” right?

Um, but there are so many expectations of first ladies, and yet you come with this depth of experience and this clear partnership. First Lady, how have you been navigating those expectations as you, um, move toward a potential, a potential second term here in this, in this office?

First Lady Dawn Moore: Well, I believe that the office of the first lady is in service- Mm

to the office of the governor.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

First Lady Dawn Moore: Whether it is children’s mental health- Mm-hmm … whether it is military families, whether it is art and culture- Mm … or whether it is the Preakness, which I care so deeply about.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

First Lady Dawn Moore: Um, those are the things I do with my office- Mm-hmm … to support the office of the governor.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm. Got you. So Governor Moore, the first time we met at a hip hop concert by the way- … which is extremely on brand. Which we love. We know how you grip the mic. I’m just saying. It was extremely on brand- I’m just saying. … the first time I met the both of you. Um, it was of course exciting to meet the both of you, but I w- I was most excited to tell you that I was a constituent, right?

Mm-hmm. So the conversation that we’re having, I’m having not just as a podcast host, but, um, as a voter, as someone who is raising my children here, as someone who’s bought a home here with my husband. So, I wanna talk a bit about some of the decisions you’ve made as governor and, and, and some of the, um, pieces that we know are on the cusp.

Yeah. Um, I’m especially curious about what it’s been like to lead in the shadow of the Trump administration, knowing that the shadow is cast more largely on Maryland, uh, than perhaps any other state, right? We know that DOGE cuts to the federal workforce hit our neighbors here particularly hard. Um, I see you and, and Maryland’s Attorney General Anthony Brown have been very active in suing the federal government when it tries to illegally use and abuse its power.

So, I’m, I’m really curious how you judge how much energy to devote to being reactive or proactive- Hmm … in this moment against this administration. How do you… frankly, how do you not let Trump guide what you do every day?

Gov. Wes Moore: Yeah. You know, it’s funny because, like, I didn’t, I didn’t run for governor to fight with the President of the United States.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm. Mm.

Gov. Wes Moore: But I also, I’m not the governor to sit there and bend the knee to the President of the United States either. Mm-hmm. Whereas, like, I was very clear, like, I will work with anyone, but I will bow to no one.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm.

Gov. Wes Moore: Like, we’re not built that way. And the, the shadow that Washington is casting on us, it’s not even like a, a shadow.

Like, it’s a direct target.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm. I

Gov. Wes Moore: mean, he’s f- they fired over 31,000 Marylanders- Mm … in a year. 31,000, more than any other state in this- Yeah … entire country. I mean, federal workers, good jobs, public servants, and these are the folks they went after first. That, you know, they signed HR 1, is now threatening to pull 200,000 of our folks off of healthcare.

First Lady Dawn Moore: Mm-hmm.

Gov. Wes Moore: You’re trying to pull food and SNAP and food assistance away from our kids. And so it’s not even that the relationship between the federal government and the state has been, like, altered. In many cases, it’s just been severed.

First Lady Dawn Moore: Mm.

Gov. Wes Moore: And so I’ve just decided that, you know, we are gonna make sure we are pushing back on them.

We are gonna make sure that when they are violating the Constitution, we are gonna say… We’re not, not just gonna speak up- Mm-hmm … we’re going to sue them on it. Mm-hmm. And we have now sued them dozens of times on a collection of things. And by the way, won basically every single time that we’ve taken them to court.

Mm-hmm. Because what they are doing is illegal.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Gov. Wes Moore: But also, it is about, like, how do we make sure that we’re pushing forward? And that’s why… So when you watch how the federal government is firing federal workers, and I was like, “Well, listen, we need to make sure we’re getting more educators inside of the classroom,” ’cause Maryland, just like every other state, had a teacher shortage.

Mm-hmm. I was like, “Let’s make sure we can get federal workers that are trained and qualified.” If I have a person who’s working for the NIH with a degree in physics, and they say, “I want to be a physics teacher,” well, get them trained, get them certified- Mm-hmm … and get them in a classroom as quickly as possible.

Mm-hmm. We’ve cut the teacher vacancy rate by, by 60% in the state of Maryland. Mm-hmm. And a lot of those people are federal workers who have now joined to the classroom. Mm-hmm. That when we saw that the f- that they were trying to cut food assistance for our kids, that I tapped into our Fiscal Responsibility Fund, which is made up of, of primarily of capital gains taxes.

Mm-hmm. And I said, “I’m pulling $63 million out of that to make sure that our kids are not going to starve because Washington’s having a food fight.” Yeah. That when we saw that they wanted to ban books and ban our history, I signed legislation banning the banning of books. You will not ban books- Mm-hmm

inside of the state of Maryland or tell us that our history is irrelevant or doesn’t matter. Mm-hmm. And so, I actually think that this is a time, the, the impact that Donald Trump, JD Vance, and that whole ilk-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm …

Gov. Wes Moore: is having on all of us, it is real, and it is significant, and I know that I and all of us have become a very special target of them.

But what they also know is this, is that in Maryland, like, we’re soldiers.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Gov. Wes Moore: And we’re gonna make sure that we’re taking care of our people, and we’re not just gonna push back on them, but we’re actually gonna show what right is supposed to look like.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: First Lady, I, I would be remiss if I did not discuss the impact on women in particular under this administration.

When we talk about federal job losses, we know just how many of those job losses, federal and otherwise, hit Black women in particular. Yeah. We’ve seen the rolling back of women’s bodily autonomy, um, that have led to some incredibly severe health outcomes for women across the country. And also, just this kind of- almost casual misogyny we’ve seen, um, toward women journalists and toward public figures.

What are the most meaningful things to do to try to push back against this really aggressive rollback, not just of rights, but of respect?

Gov. Wes Moore: Yes.

First Lady Dawn Moore: Well, I mean, when I think about what is happening to Black women in our state and all across the country, I mean, we’re the most educated. Mm-hmm. We are, you know, hardworking.

Um, we are amazing partners. Uh, we bring something really important to the table.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

First Lady Dawn Moore: And so, what we have sought to do in Maryland is build our own table.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm.

First Lady Dawn Moore: And, you know, I, I always said, you know, I, while I never knew I was marrying a governor- … I knew I was marrying a soldier.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm.

First Lady Dawn Moore: And so, you know, we’ve been through some tough times in our history.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

First Lady Dawn Moore: And this is one of those moments, but we are resilient. We are brilliant.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm.

First Lady Dawn Moore: And with great leadership- We will get through this too.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

First Lady Dawn Moore: And I can tell you, I have been around this state enough, when many people, Black women, white women, white men, Black men, say, and, and, and many others, “Thank God we’re in Maryland.”

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Listen, I, the- I distinctly remember when we realized stuff was about to shift in DC. People started suddenly examining, you know, their state policies- Mm-hmm. Sure … who was in leadership, and there are a lot of people who made some moves, Maryland being one of them. Mm-hmm. They said, “You know, we, we gotta, we gotta figure this out.”

But there are still a lot of questions that our neighbors have, right, that Marylanders have. One of those questions that has been asked a lot is about data centers. Yep. Um, Governor, Maryland has more than 40 data centers already, with others being planned for construction. Communities are concerned about the impact on the supply grid, the impact on the environment.

Some counties have banned d- data center development. We saw, um, in New York the governor declared a moratorium on new data center development for at least a year. Is that something you’d consider doing here in Maryland too?

Gov. Wes Moore: Well, I can tell you, I’m concerned about the things that we’ve seen with data centers.

I mean, there, there were over, to your point, there were over 40 data centers- Mm-hmm … in Maryland before I even became the governor. Mm-hmm. So this thing was, this thing was moving- Mm-hmm … uh, where our predece- my predecessors, uh, put this thing in action. And if you look at, for example, in, like, northern Virginia, Virginia is, has the highest concentration of data centers- Mm-hmm

not in the United States, in the globe.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Gov. Wes Moore: And so, and what was happening before was these data centers were basically writing their own rules. Mm-hmm. They were saying, “We’re gonna go here, and we’re gonna do this, and we’re gonna pull this energy, and we’re gonna pull this on the environment.” It’s like, but, but, so the community doesn’t have a say?

Mm-hmm. So leadership is just letting this happen. And so what we did when we came, when we came on board, we’re like, “Okay, hold on now. Uh, we have to have some clear guidelines about these things,” even the ones that were previously approved before I came on board, to said, like, “You have to be able to pay for your own energy.

You have to be able to pay for your own upgrades, and you’re not gonna ask taxpayers to do that.” Mm-hmm. “That you have to be able to abide by environmental guidelines, and you cannot just do what you want to the environment and think that there are, you know, that you’re just gonna get green-lit. You have to be able to hire local workers.”

Mm-hmm. “And you’ve gotta make sure that you’re working with local communities.” Mm-hmm. So I, so I do understand. There are certain local communities who are, who are very, who want this, and, and I understand that. Uh, and I know there’s certain communities who don’t, and I understand that too. But even for the communities that do want it- My point is this, you cannot allow these data center companies to just write their own rules.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm.

Gov. Wes Moore: It’s not gonna work like that. The state has to have a voice. The state has to have input. The local communities have to have input, and if local communities are not okay with it, you cannot move forward with it. If you think you’re just gonna be able to, you know, have violations on environmental guidelines, you cannot move forward with it.

And so I, I also am- have been frustrated with the way this process has been rolled out for years. Mm-hmm. And I do think we need to have more guardrails, not just in the state, but frankly, around the whole country.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: What should some of those guardrails look like? And how… what would that process of community input to those guardrails- Yeah

look like

Gov. Wes Moore: to you? Well, one, I, I think local communities need to have a say. Mm-hmm. If local communities do not want, uh, infrastructure there, then infrastructure cannot move forward. Data centers, data center companies cannot override- Mm-hmm … local jurisdictions. So I think that has to be clear, and that has to be fortified.

I think if you are not hiring local workers, if you’re not making sure the local workers are the ones who are benefiting from it, and you’re just importing people- Mm … and it’s not Marylanders- Mm-hmm … or people in individual jurisdictions that are benefiting from it, then I’m not sure why this is something that we should support.

Mm. Uh, and also you cannot just add onto the grid and think that taxpayers should just pay for it. Mm-hmm. Taxpayers should not pay for it. In fact, if anything, you should be coming up with new technologies and new innovations to make sure that you are putting, giving relief- Mm … to taxpayers. And the new technologies for that type of build are actually there.

And so, I just think that that’s how we’ve got to do it. And but also, I think that the power and the autonomy has gotta go to the people.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm.

Gov. Wes Moore: The people need to determine whether or not this is a good idea for their jurisdiction, and not just simply a data center company who has been for years just kind of getting their way- Mm-hmm

with the way this process works.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Speaking of people, we were all looking at the people on the wall in here, and there’s, um, one, you know, common trait among them. That none of them look like the three of us. No, they don’t. Um, No, they don’t. But this conversation about race, we know is, is central in Maryland, given who built the house that we’re sitting in right here- That’s right.

That’s right … um, at, at the State House. Um, you know, the legacy o- of Harriet Tubman and so many others. So this conversation of reparations keeps coming up. Yeah. And this may be a place where we differ a bit, but you got a lot of criticism last year for vetoing a bill to establish a commission for the studying of reparations, a veto that of- was, of course, later overridden by the state legislature.

You said that you’d prefer to take action than pursue another study. Would you have approached it any differently, looking back? I,

Gov. Wes Moore: I, I, I would not have because I think what I said, I still stand by. Mm. Um, what I vetoed was a, a, a, a c- a commission for a study- Mm-hmm … of reparations. And my thing is, I want action.

Like, I, I, we, we don’t… When, when people are saying right now that we know the impacts of structural racism in our society, and frankly, we’ve had commissions in the state of Maryland- Mm-hmm … that have been done on these type of issues. In fact, my wife worked on one of them. That’s true.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Yeah.

Gov. Wes Moore: So, it’s like we’ve done studies.

Mm-hmm. We’ve done commissions. We’ve done this work. So it’s like, so let’s now, let’s get about the business of the work.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Mm-hmm.

Gov. Wes Moore: And so, when I was saying, so in, you know, if you look at what we’ve done in the state of Maryland, we made the largest investments in the Maryland’s HBCUs in our state’s history.

We’ve now invested over $1.3 billion- Mm-hmm … in Maryland’s HBCUs, right? Over a 60% increase from anything that my predecessors have done before. Mm-hmm. Right? This is the work to make sure we’re protecting our Black institutions, particularly when we’re seeing this assault on them from the federal government.

That we did procurement reform. When we’re watching how the federal government is going after our minority-owned businesses and our Black-owned businesses, what are we doing in Maryland? We did procurement reform to make sure that they’re getting their fair share of state dollars. We’ve now allocated over $850 million- Mm-hmm

going towards Black-owned businesses alone in the state of Maryland.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: In addition to those, though, that we know, um- Mm-hmm … are set up to help address the racial wealth gap, is one of the actions that you’re willing to take direct payments to those- Yeah … who have been impacted by the legacy of enslavement and its aftermath here?

Gov. Wes Moore: Well, when… And, and I’m glad you said it because, ’cause my focus is, what are we doing to create wealth?

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Gov. Wes Moore: Right? The ability to own more than you owe. The ability to pass something off to your children besides debt.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Gov. Wes Moore: And when I think about wealth- I think that, you know, can cash reparations be a, a part of a conversation?

That’s fine. But I’m focusing on wealth. Mm. I wanna make sure we have a chance at ownership. Mm-hmm. And when I think about if we’re not dealing with the structures, if we’re not dealing with structural racism, if we’re not dealing with the fact that we have unfair appraisal values-

First Lady Dawn Moore: Mm.

Gov. Wes Moore: Mm … that have, that has been one of the greatest wealth thefts that we have seen in our nation, if we’re not dealing with the fact that we need to give fair share to Black-owned businesses- Mm-hmm

and making sure that Black-owned businesses have a chance to grow and thrive, if we’re just talking about, you know, individual cash payments and not dealing with the structures- Mm-hmm … that is dealing with the wealth gap- Mm … then I actually fear you could actually be increasing-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm.

Gov. Wes Moore: The gap, yeah … the wealth gap without actually dealing with some of these, some of these structural racist structures that exist.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: So here we are, it’s 2026. We’re right ahead of a midterm. We’ve got 2028 coming up. First Lady Moore, I would assume that if you were not busy doing this, that the Democrats hopefully would be smart enough to hire you, um, on some strategy work. We just have seen the implosion, for example, of, um, US Senate candidate Graham Platner’s campaign.

I don’t think he was appropriately vetted, or perhaps there were some things that they knew about that they did not deem disqualifying. Mm. A certain tattoo. Mm-hmm. Stories potentially of, um, a- abuse and assault. I often ask our guests what it’s going to take for evidence of racism or misogyny to be disqualifying, um, especially when Black women are perpetually the canaries in these coal mines, right?

And we’re constantly raising the alarm. You’re looking at ’26, you’re looking at ’28. If you were advising Democrats right now- … with your strategy hat on, because we know it’s, it’s quite strong, what would you tell them about how to win right now?

First Lady Dawn Moore: Well, I, I think, you know, this may be the most obvious thing, but we have to listen to our communities.

Mm. You know, when, when Wes was running, or we talked about running, um, I had to kick the tires a little bit. It wasn’t like I was like, “Oh, yes, this is what we’re doing.”

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Uh-huh.

First Lady Dawn Moore: Right?

Gov. Wes Moore: Sure did.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: You were like, “Gosh, this hurts a little bit.” Yeah. “Wait a minute. I thought you were just gonna get on board.”

First Lady Dawn Moore: I’m like, “You, you know we might not win, right?”

Uh-huh. But, but I was wrong, and thank God for that. Mm-hmm. Right? But i- importantly, once I realized his why- Mm … and understood his why, ’cause I needed to know his why, too- Mm-hmm … you know, in childhood poverty-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm …

First Lady Dawn Moore: in the, the racial wealth gap- Mm-hmm … I said to him, “We can’t do this from a ivory tower thinking we know all things.”

Mm. Mm. We have to meet people where they are. And we had an all-county strategy with our race.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

First Lady Dawn Moore: And I would say- in the midterm and beyond. You have to go into every community. There is no way around it. Mm-hmm. I don’t care who you are-

Gov. Wes Moore: Mm-hmm …

First Lady Dawn Moore: where you are, you can’t be afraid to have the hard conversations.

You can’t be afraid to go into rural communities. Mm-hmm. You can’t be afraid to go into Black communities. Mm-hmm. You can’t be afraid to go anywhere. You have to be unafraid. Mm-hmm. We have always taken care of working people.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm.

First Lady Dawn Moore: Somehow this has gotten co-opted, and it’s just not accurate, and we can see that now.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

First Lady Dawn Moore: So my advice would be, you have to be on the ground, and you have to be in all communities.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm. I, I, I’m curious, especially given that advice where you have to be unafraid and undistracted, as it were- Um, Governor Moore, we’ve seen a wave locally, nationally toward democratic socialism, toward more progressive candidates.

Um, a lot of people are eager to embrace this momentum. I’m curious how you would appeal to those constituents who might identify that way. Talk to me like I’m a democratic socialist or, or a progressive voter. Yeah. Um, why should I get behind you and, frankly, this party that folks got a lot of questions about?

Gov. Wes Moore: So I mean, I think honestly the skepticism that folks have is real, and it’s fair. I mean, the party hasn’t always delivered for people.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm.

Gov. Wes Moore: I mean, just be very honest. Mm-hmm. And I think that people’s anger and frustration about the lack of progress, um, shouldn’t be questioned. You know, we shouldn’t be looking at them and saying like, “Well, it’s ’cause you’re not paying attention to everything we’re doing.”

Like, nah, yo. Mm. Like pay attention to what people are telling you.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Gov. Wes Moore: Because I think about a lot of the policies that have, that hurt my family when we were coming up, I– my family couldn’t tell you if a Democratic, it was a Democratic idea or a Republican idea.

First Lady Dawn Moore: Mm.

Gov. Wes Moore: They could just tell you it’s a, an idea that hurt our family.

And so I think there needs to be a sense of humility-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm …

Gov. Wes Moore: that the Democrats have gotta bring to s- to this moment, but also to understand that I don’t think for a lot of people, you know, they’re not thinking about this about an ideology. Mm. They’re not thinking like… They’re like, “Listen, that’s like, that’s like a Washington game.”

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Gov. Wes Moore: You know, are you a moderate? Are you a progress- Are you a democratic social? Are you this? Like for most people, they’re like, “I, here’s what I know.”

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah. “

Gov. Wes Moore: I know things are too expensive.”

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Gov. Wes Moore: Right? “Here’s what I know. I know I can’t afford to buy a home. Here’s what I know is my streets aren’t safe.”

And I think while Washington is doing political Science 101-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm …

Gov. Wes Moore: the people in our communities are talking Economics 101.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Gov. Wes Moore: So it’s two different courses. It’s different languages-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm …

Gov. Wes Moore: that folks are speaking right now. And so I think that the answer is, you know, this isn’t about, oh, you know, when folks like, “Do you dispel the DSA from the Democratic Party?”

It’s like, like, like party bosses don’t get to determine-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah …

Gov. Wes Moore: who is a this or who is a that. You know who does determine? The people. Come up with better ideas. Come up with better results. The thing that we focus… You know, when we had our election, you know, we had our, our primary election, in fact, the same day that New York had theirs.

And not only were we blessed that we were, you know, overwhelmingly successful- Mm-hmm … but also we had a whole slate of candidates who we endorsed.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Mm-hmm.

Gov. Wes Moore: The, and we call it our Leave No One Behind slate.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Mm-hmm.

Gov. Wes Moore: And people were like, “Was there an ideology that connected?” I was like, “Nah.” Like, we endorsed progressive lawmaker from Montgomery County- Mm

and we endorsed a prosecutor from Baltimore County. Mm. Like, there’s no ideology that connected them. What connected them was this: that these were folks who were focusing on common sense solution- Mm … and moving with a sense of speed and urgency- Mm … and who were ready to disrupt the sta- the status quo.

That’s it. And I think if people are looking for that- Mm-hmm … and you can help to deliver the results. Like for example, in Maryland, we’ve had the, amongst the fastest drop in violent crime anywhere in the United States of America. Yes, indeed. Down nearly 60%- Mm … statewide in the state of Maryland. And by the way, you know, we did without activating the National Guard.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Mm. Mm-hmm.

Gov. Wes Moore: You know what I mean? We’ve now added over 55,000 new businesses inside of the state of Maryland. We made Maryland the s- the first state in the country that has a service year option for all of our high school graduates. First state in the country that now has a place-based investment strategy dealing with the issue of concentrated childhood poverty.

Mm. Mm-hmm. Like, results.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Mm-hmm.

Gov. Wes Moore: And so that’s the thing I think people are looking for. People are just like, “Yo, who’s looking out for me-

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Yeah.

Gov. Wes Moore: Mm-hmm … and my family?” Yeah. And I think it’s something that the Democratic Party has gotta understand. Like, if you just keep on resting on some laurels or thinking that this person should not be in the party, that person not be party, like, the people are about to give you a rude awakening.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Before I let you go, the people are absolutely focused on what we need and what we deserve. What’s you all’s best advice on how to stay undistracted-

First Lady Dawn Moore: Mm …

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: in these tough times?

First Lady Dawn Moore: I love that question. Um, we have to be involved. Mm. There’s a lot of, you know, noise out there to distract us from keeping the main thing the thing.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

First Lady Dawn Moore: Policy matters. People who remove themselves from the system, they take their ball and go home, it’s not how you play the game. You have to be involved and you have to vote.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm.

First Lady Dawn Moore: This is what’s happening. You know, across the country, it is this sort of lulling us into this, “Well, we can’t make a difference.”

Mm. It’s just not true. And these next upcoming elections, local, national- We have to participate at every level, and it can’t just be I’m going to the polls. Mm. It has to be I’m taking my whole household. I’m taking my five neighbors with me. We have to go back to the basics. Mm. Because that’s what’s required right now, and that is the win strategy.

When we get involved, when we vote, it’s very hard to lose.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah. Yeah.

Gov. Wes Moore: I, I, I say if you wanna stay undistracted, get you a Dawn in your life.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Smart strategy.

Gov. Wes Moore: I mean, but- Smart strategy … and, and, and it’s real because it’s like I believe in this philosophy of don’t let people that don’t matter too much matter too much.

Mm.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-hmm.

Gov. Wes Moore: I just think, like, we spend a whole lot of time worrying about what this person say or that person say- Mm … or what this person wrote on social media. It’s like, yo- Don’t let people that don’t matter too much matter too much.

First Lady Dawn Moore: Mm-hmm.

Gov. Wes Moore: Like, I don’t… Just stay, stay prayed up, stay around people that love you.

First Lady Dawn Moore: Mm.

Gov. Wes Moore: And stay focused.

First Lady Dawn Moore: Mm-hmm.

Gov. Wes Moore: Because every single day is a day that once that day is gone, it’s gone. You cannot get that day back. Mm-hmm. So I’m not trying to waste one of these things. Mm-hmm. And so, when I’m thinking about the things that are going to motivate me-

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm …

Gov. Wes Moore: I’m not motivated by what a hater says or what a-

this person writes or whate- like, yo, listen, like, stay focused. What motivates me, my God motivates me.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm.

Gov. Wes Moore: My family, my friends motivate me, my mission motivates me. Mm-hmm. That’s what motivates me. So, I think the best way to stay undistracted is to be undistracted.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Gov. Wes Moore: And just don’t let this stuff, don’t let things and people that don’t matter- Yeah

too much matter too much.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Does a, does a position on the 2028 ticket, is that a motivator?

Gov. Wes Moore: That’s, that’s a distraction. If you

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: wanted to share that.

Gov. Wes Moore: That’s a distraction.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Oh, okay. All right. I had to ask. Thank you all so much for joining us on Undistracted. Thank you. Thank you. God bless

Gov. Wes Moore: you. We

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: appreciate it.

Gov. Wes Moore: God bless you.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: All right, y’all, I’m joined today once again for Untrending News by our group chat regular and bestie, author and gender and women’s studies professor, Dr. Brittney Cooper. Coop, it’s always good- What’s up? … to have you back. How you be, girl? My

Dr. Brittney Cooper: I’m, I’m hanging in there. How you be?

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I’m hanging in.

Listen, it’s a whole lot on the docket today. I’m gonna start with the tough one so that we can end in some joy. Um- Okay … I just wanna warn everybody that the conversation we’re about to have is graphic. Um, it includes, uh, conversations about suicide, hanging, and lynching. So back in May, a Black 16-year-old named Juliana Nzita was found hanging from a tree in Charlotte, North Carolina, near her family’s predominantly Black church.

Coop, she was hanging by the strap that secures cargo from a tree twice her height. Police apparently investigated the incident, and for two days they did so, and then they ruled that it was a suicide. But last week, the Charlotte Observer published a damning article reporting that the police never contacted the man who reportedly found her on his dog walk.

They never found her cell phone, and they reported that authorities actually did not even conduct an autopsy despite saying that they had thoroughly inspected the body.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Yeah.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Now, Charlotte, of course, has a long history of lynchings, and the story’s been getting more attention from online communities that are demanding answers on this case, as well as, of course, her family and loved ones.

And especially given everything happening, uh, with the family of Nolan Wells and the fact that we have zero answers about what happened to him, Coop, how are you making sense of the details coming out about this case?

Dr. Brittney Cooper: You know, so many things to say. I think first I wanna just send love to Juliana’s family.

Um, this is a horrific thing. Um, one of her parents was interviewed and did note that she dealt with bullying and she dealt with depression, and I am left thinking about the uncertainty that we had when Sandra Bland was found dead in her jail cell, um, 11 summers ago, and our uncertainty about whether the, whether she committed suicide or the state murdered her.

And I think that there is this same distinction, which is w- the racial pressure that Black girls experience can produce the kind of mental health challenges that might make one want to die by suicide. And so, I think that we have to both hold space for the possibility that our kids are really struggling and that they might be choosing spectacular ways to say, “I am in pain,” and also say that the state is notorious for not giving our children, in life or death, the care that they deserve.

This certainly deserved more question, more investigation, and if she had been a white 16-year-old girl hanging from a tree, then all the stops would’ve been pulled out to get to the bottom of this, to have a clear and complete story to tell both to the family and to this community. And the fact that that was not done here, um, is evidence of systemic neglect and a disregard for Black bodies.

And I want us to begin having a conversation about not whether it was suicide or murder only, but about the way that the conditions we live in produce premature Black death, which is what the scholar Ruthie Gilmore calls the definition of racism, a set of conditions that produce premature Black death.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I’m sitting here with the same feelings that I felt when I found out about Breonna Taylor.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Yeah.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: And I found out about Breonna Taylor in May, even though she had been killed by police in Kentucky in March. And how it- Took me cutting the podcast that I used to co-host where I talked about it, and I remember putting it online, and it went viral at the same time that the first national story about it from Errin Haines, who’s obviously a friend of ours and, um, editor of The 19th.

And at the time, The 19th had a deal with The Washington Post where a number of their stories were cross-posted, so it was posted in The 19th and The Washington Post. And that was the first, to my memory, national story about Breonna Taylor, and both of those hit at the same time. And I had this terrible feeling that I’m feeling right now that if it were not for Black women raising the alarm, then Breonna would have died in relative silence.

Juliana would have died in relative silence. I found out her name because of Black women posting about her and reminding us that we should be just as loud for her as we are for Nolan Wells, as we have been for Karmelo Anthony, as we have been for every other marginalized person who often gets the attention, um, that is necessary to see any kind of accountability in these cases, but that young Black girls in particular don’t even get.

First Lady Dawn Moore: Yeah.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: And so when you add that on top of the lack of answers that her family has, on top of the downright disturbing n- negligence at best that Charlotte Police showed, who were then defended by the mayor of that town, and you add onto that exactly what you’re saying, the open questions about how such a young, beautiful girl could end in her life in such a, in such a tragic way, no matter what happened, whether it was self-induced or not.

All of those layers leave me with just this sinking pit in the, in my stomach. And I remember the day that I talked about Breonna Taylor, and I was crying on the microphone. And you know us, norm- we’re, we, we, we’re commentators. We do this. We know how to put a bow on something and wrap it up and give people an action item or a provocative thought, and I just remember being like, “I don’t have nothing for, for y’all.

I don’t have nothing perfect to wrap this up in.” I actually just want you to sit with the pain of a mother burying her child, which is an unnatural order to things. I want you to sit with the frustration of knowing that there are so many people who didn’t care that it took us months to even tell the story, let alone for the people who needed to be asked the questions to be asked those questions.

And they haven’t even answered them.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Yeah.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: And so I just… All those same feelings, especially now as a mother, but certainly as a Black person, as a Black woman, I’m, I’m having the same feelings about Juliana, about Nolan, that I had about Breonna. And- I just sometimes wonder, like, if there will ever be enough pain for us to experience for other people to finally say, “You know, we should fix this thing.”

And the truth is, I already know the answer. I know the answer- Yeah … is no.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Yeah.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Right? I know that if dead children were enough, then we would already have gun control. We would have, um, we would have family care. We would have full SNAP benefits for folks. Like, I already know that if people hanging from trees were enough, then Ida B. Wells would’ve had to go and find a different vocation in life, because that would not have been a fight that she needed to fight all those years ago. Yeah. Um, I already know that if we were truly worried about preventing death by suicide in people, and especially young people, then we would be taking care to build the kind of schools and playgrounds and inter-community and intra-community care that is actually suicide prevention because people are well enough, um, to not feel like that’s their only option.

Um, and, and if dead children were enough, then no medical examiner, no police officers would be able to go to rest their head at night- Yeah … without properly investigating, properly, uh, examining bodies, and actually doing the work that they’re paid by us to do to solve the answers that are still ringing in parents’ ears.

Yeah. So these are the days when I’m like, I already know that, that it’s never gonna be enough. There are never going to be enough tears that drop. Um, and that makes me Angry

Dr. Brittney Cooper: You know, one of the things I think that we, that part of what the, the goal here is, is to normalize. To make us see a Black girl hanging from a tree and, and just suggest that that- that’s just normal, that’s just regular.

And one of the most important forms of resistance that we have historically had is that Black people have never normalized Black death. We have always been the ones to say that we matter. And it actually really matters in this moment to tell people that this was the basis from which the Say Her Name iteration of Black Lives Matter was born.

And I saw people, and I understand it was with good intention, talking about Nolan Wells and other Black boys who have been killed and saying, “Say his name.” And they were saying it as a ritual of do not forget. But the reason that Black feminists like Kimberlé Crenshaw and like the Black Youth Project created Say Her Name, was because we actually don’t say Black girls’ names as readily as we say Black boys’ names, and we are learning that in, with Juliana again.

And it’s this thing you said about Breonna Taylor, that in 2020 we had a news ecosystem that allowed our people to organize and, and come together and really figure this out. And so much of that news ecosystem has been destroyed, and so much of that work is actively moving away. And so, I just want to encourage folks to not look away and to, to observe and to witness, um, and to be in a practice of witness, as my friend Treva Lindsey would say, with this family as they try to figure out what happened to their daughter.

Because where did she procure the sports strap? How does she get up in this tree either to hang herself from the top or to climb from the bottom? Where is the chair? Where is the log? There, there are so many questions, and we deserve answers. We might not get those answers, but part of the revolutionary work that we do is reminding people that we see what you do, we see what your systems produce, and we will not be silent in the face of Black death.

That is our job. That’s our job.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: That’s right. That’s our job, and we will continue to stay on their asses-

Dr. Brittney Cooper: That’s right …

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: and just know, sweet Juliana- Yes … we will never, ever stop saying your name.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: That’s right, baby girl.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: So, I know I said I was gonna, like, get us to some joy, and I promise I’m getting there.

But we have to talk about the Women’s Tennis Association, because they’ve become the first major women’s sports organization, are you ready for this, Coop? To require genetic testing to confirm athletes’ genders for participation. The test they will be using seeks to identify people with Y chromosomes to exclude them from women’s sports.

Um, you know, people that they deem to be biologically male, even though there are intersex people and people with other sex development variances that have Y chromosomes too. Now we know that the Olympics and a few major international competitions have done this too, but they’re also under severe scrutiny.

So now the WTA seems to have opted in here without a big spotlight or pressure on them in particular. We talked about this a little last week with David in the group chat because, uh, uh, RFK and his MAHA self are talking about doing some of this same stuff. And I’m just like, what do you think would need to happen here, Coop, to prevent this from becoming a bigger wave across the country?

Because it’s clearly deeply problematic, but I’m worried it’s becoming a trend.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Let me just put on my gender studies professor hat and say to the audience, there is no gender gene. There is… Gender and s- biological sex are different Uh, gender is how we express our relationship to notions of masculinity and femininity, and that is based on personal proclivity, style, desire, all of those kinds of things.

Biological sex is loosely related to what our chromosomal makeup is, but as B Squared has already noted for you, there are more than two chromosomal makeups. There are more than XX and XY. There’s XXY, there’s extra Ys. There’s all kinds of things that go on at the chromosomal level that often don’t even get noted until these sports associations start going for work to confirm.

And here’s the thing, we’ve actually known some of this stuff for many decades at this point, and so we gotta stop operating like it’s 1935 and we don’t know any better, and recognize that there is so much diversity in biological sex. And what we want is a world where if people want to be athletes, they are encouraged to be athletes.

And so maybe that means then we have to stop having binary gender-based sports leagues. And maybe if, like, that, that would be a revolutionary idea, ’cause I know that there are some girls that can get down on a professional football field.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Now, come on, now.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: So, let’s just reimagine altogether why we have tied sport to gender in the ways that we have.

That in and of itself is a limitation of our thinking, and so I think we should see it as an invitation, but I’m deeply bothered by this. And what I want folks to do is upl- update their language of gender and stop saying and stop believing that trans people and intersex people are a threat to any trophy, any athletic anything.

All of these are right-wing lies meant to keep you focused on marginal and vulnerable people so that you’re not looking at all of the ways that they’re making our lives miserable in the policy positions that they take.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Just say that you wanna protect your own mediocrity, please. Like, please just be honest about it.

Okay. And I just wish you would go ahead and admit that so we can all move on. But if you’re over here trying to actually create some kind of gender binary that doesn’t exist, to engage in a transphobia that does not serve you, to be clear, um, so that you can have fewer people to compete against because you just don’t wanna get better, that’s boring.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Yes.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: That’s sad. Yeah. I don’t like it. I want better for you. I want you to want better for yourself.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: That’s right.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: You understand what I’m saying?

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Yeah.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I just, we, these things are simple if we kept them simple, but you don’t wanna keep them simple, you wanna test people. But like you said, uh, we got a whole lot of ideas about sports, but one of the things that did bring me joy this weekend was the fact that it was not MNBA All-Star Weekend, but WNBA All-Star Weekend.

Everybody watches women’s sports. You all talk about it a lot here with us on Undistracted.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Yeah.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I love seeing everybody shutting it down in Chi-Town. They met President Obama. We had all the fun. We had a rookie winning the three-point contest. We, uh, had, uh, Coop and Spoon, uh, battling against each other as coaches, bringing the legends back.

We had Angel on the floor. We even, you know, closed out the weekend with DiJonai Carrington let us in, letting us in all of her business and putting all of her tea on Threads. Um, I can’t remember the last time an MNBA All-Star Weekend was this enjoyable. What was your favorite part of the weekend?

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Hey, listen, I was outside this weekend, so I did not watch, but I am a longtime sports fan, and so, uh, of particularly college women’s basketball and then mostly s- some of the shenanigans in the WNBA.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Um, but you know, I find that I’m just happy that these girls are getting paid more money so that they can actually be awarded- Hello … for their talents. I think that this is a huge win, um, for the culture. Uh, and I gotta do better about tuning in.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: You know what? There’s so much to tune into right now, and I, I really love that this weekend, nearly 20,000 fans pulled up to the festivities in Chicago- Yeah

which I think is a great sign of things to come. ESPN also dropped this multi-part series about three players called Life in the W that I have been watching with bated breath. I mean, A’ja and Bam are just so fascinating to watch together, and watching the way that A’ja leads I think is, like, just, I think it’s instructive for a whole lot of people.

Yeah. Also, shout-out to Natasha Cloud, who pulled up in a Nolan Wells shirt.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Yeah.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: She said, “Enough is enough, and that family deserves answers.” This is why I love the W.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: Yeah.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Because not only do they know how to have fun, and not only do they know how to keep it joyful, they also know how to keep it real for the people.

That’s it. So we stan the W. I’m glad to see Syd Colson, who I think is the funniest person in all of sports, is finally on Threads. Syd, come onto the podcast anytime. We need you in the group chat.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: I love it. I love it.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: All right, Coop, it’s always good to talk to you. Thank you for helping us talk through the tough stuff and the joyful stuff.

I’ll see you real soon.

Dr. Brittney Cooper: See you soon.

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Y’all, I sat in that room at the State House before the governor and the first lady walked in, and looked around. ‘Cause I realized that like much of America, we were in a building that had been built by Black hands, but where there were only old white men on the wall.

Those, of course, were the folks who had led the state before Wes Moore was elected in 2022 to be governor, and it got me to thinking, what does this room seen? If these walls could talk, what would they say? Would these portraits look down and say, “How the hell did y’all get in here?” Or, hmm, would there be some folks up there that were grateful that there was some fresh energy and fresh ideas in the place?

Whatever the room holds, whether it was built for us or not, whether it was built by us or not, it’s important to tell the truth, to ask the questions that need answers, to dig into the strategy that we need moving forward, and to always, always say her name. So, no matter where you are, no matter what you’re doing, no matter who you find yourself having audience with, keep speaking up, keep telling the truth, and Juliana, we’ll keep saying your name.

Thanks for listening, thanks for being, and most importantly, thanks for doing. I’m Brittany Packnett Cunningham. Let’s go get free.

Our executive producers are Cindi Leive and myself, Brittany Packnett Cunningham.

Our producer at Collective Media is Douglas Forte with supervising producer Ryan Jones.

Our supervising producer at The Meteor is Taylor Hosking and artwork is by Bianca Alvarez.

This episode was produced with support from Liberation Ventures and The Meteor Fund.

You can follow me on all social media @mspackyetti and our incredible team @themeteor.