UNDISTRACTED: Jun 03, 2026

We should all be Backtalker, with Dr. Kimberlé Crenshaw

Please note: This transcript has been automatically generated.

If we look around, our nation- That’s right … is on the cliff right now. That’s right. And much of it can be traced to the disregard- That’s right … in which Black women, our veracity, our wellbeing, has been treated by our nation and sometimes by our own community.

Hey, y’all. I will never forget the first time I learned the word intersectionality, and then when I realized that it had been coined by a Black woman, a legal scholar, so much in my life made sense. Understanding why it wasn’t just the addition of racism and sexism that I had been dealing with for so long, but that there were unique pressures, unique ways that, uh, systems intersected to challenge people like me that were different from my indigenous sisters or my queer sisters or my Asian sisters.

Yeah, that was a clarifying inflection point. And I would dare say that as a country, and most certainly as a people concerned with justice, no matter who you are or what intersections at which you exist, now, right now, is another inflection point. We’re either going to be determined to become who we should be, or we’re going to get stuck being who we’ve always been.

And that’s why we gotta stay undistracted. For those of you who are watching on YouTube, be sure to subscribe at The Meteor so you don’t miss an episode, and welcome to Undistracted.

On the show today, I told y’all we have the woman of the hour, the foremother of this here intersectional feminist podcast and movement, the Dr. Kimberlé Crenshaw. She’s here to talk about her personal memoir, and we have our group chat besties, Dr. David Johns and Dr. Brittney Cooper, joining us for this week’s Untrending News.

It’s a good one, too, y’all. Stay tuned. There are thinkers who describe the world, and then there are thinkers who change the way we actually see it. My guest today has done the latter not once, but twice. She gave us the idea of intersectional feminism, and she was one of the founders of critical race theory.

And now, at a moment when both of these frameworks are being legally erased from classrooms and institutions, she’s giving us her story. What a gift. Dr. Kimberlé Crenshaw’s new memoir, Backtalker: An American Memoir, is out now, and it is as personal as it is political, tracing her journey from her childhood in Canton, Ohio, during the Civil Rights Movement, through her work on the Clarence Thomas hearings, all the way to this terrifying and clarifying political moment that we’re living in right now.

Dr. Kimberlé Crenshaw, Dr. Kim, my hero, my friend- … my sister, welcome back to Undistracted. We’re so glad to have you. Sister Brittany, it’s always a good time to be in conversation with you, so thank you so much for making the time. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, you definitely called it with this book. It’s so much more, uh, than academic theories, right?

Um- Mm-hmm … and you’ve become really famous for these theories, so it would’ve been easy to sit there, and necessary, frankly, to just put that book out, um, books about intersectional feminism, um, uh, and theories that you became famous for. Um, but you are really talking about your real-life experiences because all of those- Mm-hmm theories came out of that. That’s right. What would you say was your earliest experience that caused you to start thinking about what became this theory and really practice and framework of intersectionality? Well, you know, I think it’ll be surprising to some people, Brittany, because in the very first chapter of the book, I talk about, uh, an unrequited relationship that I had with Thorn Rosa, who was a- Hmm fairy tale, you know, uh, uh, princess. Mm-hmm. And I very much wanted to play that role of a fairy tale princess in kindergarten, and, uh, the teacher selected me for every other role, repeatedly as- Mm-hmm … the Wicked Witch. Apparently, I was pretty convincing as a wicked witch, but was not ever really in the running to be the star of the show.

Hmm. The beautiful, the much loved, the desired- Hmm … Thorn Rosa. And so, you know, I tell the story. I mean, it, it’s partly, it’s partly humorous because my brother thought that I’d been beaten up by Thorn Rosa and was trying to find out- … where the Rosa family lived. But- And none of my friends could tell him, “We don’t know where Thorn Rosa lives.”

And so he goes running off, you know, to find this Rosa family to have a word with them. Uh, and I, I go home, it’s the last day of school, and my parents are both teachers as well. We’re all looking forward to just launching into this wonderful summer vacation. Mm-hmm. And here I’m having, you know, what amounted to a nervous breakdown for a kindergartner.

Um, and they had to find out what had happened, what happened- Hmm … that made me just lose it like this. And so being teachers, they were able to call my teacher and they got, you know, the 411 on what happened. Yeah. And actually had her come to the house- Wow … um, to deal with this damage that, that had been caused.

And you know, I, I, I began there because there wasn’t a word, you know, for, for what had happened. There- Mm-hmm … it was clear that it had something to do with, you know, my being a little Black girl. Mm-hmm. Uh, not in the running for the beautiful long-haired Thorn Rosa. Yeah. But there also weren’t readily available ways of conceptualizing the injury that Black- Hmm girls experience. Mm-hmm. You know, because we can’t grow into that thing that supposedly women are supposed to become. Yeah. And they could have done a lot. I mean, they could have said, “Stop, stop, you know, stop that crazy crying.” They could have said, you know- You know, this ain’t nothing compared to what you’re gonna experience.
Right. I mean, they could have done all of that, but they saw that there was a real injury. Mm-hmm. And they affirmed that it needed to be acknowledged. Yeah. It was clear that, you know, it, the injury couldn’t be taken away. But as I say in the book, I think they were trying to manage how I would feel when I ran over that scar in my consciousness.

Mm. Mm. What would come, you know, to me. And so, uh, I credit them- Yeah … for, uh, beginning the journey that led to some of, of the work, because you can have a experience and you can feel a way about an experience without yet having the words to articulate that. That’s right. And that affirmation, I think, set me on this pathway.

That affirmation is so critical because it’s incredibly rare. I mean, when I think about my time in education and understanding that willful defiance was, um, a, a, a behavior, a totally natural childhood behavior that was often being punished in a bunch of public school districts- Mm. Mm … um, this idea of talking back is not only discouraged, it’s punished, right?

It is. But the book is called Backtalker, and these early stories and affirmations show us that you are not new to this. You are absolutely true to this. You’ve always been speaking truth to power, whether people affirm it or not. Why do you think it’s important for young women to have the skill of talking back?

Yeah. Well, we’re born into a situation in which we are subject to at least one hierarchy- Mm-hmm … and sometimes more than that. And those hierarchies tell you that things are the way they need to be. Mm-hmm. They tell you that i- if, if it, it irritates you, if it upsets you, if it gives you questions- Yeah you’re not supposed to question it. Yeah. Um, being a good girl is just to fall in line, not to talk back against it. Mm-hmm. That’s, you know, the authoritarianism that we are born into as women. There’s the authoritarianism that we’re born into- Yeah … as Black people, and it’s the authoritarianism that is the grounding for the existing authoritarianism that we’re speaking about in society.

Mm-hmm. So I wanted to acknowledge that back talking presumes a hierarchy- Yeah … just in the very frame of it, and then say, “Yeah, we know there’s this hierarchy, but it’s not a legitimate hierarchy.” Mm-hmm. And we should transform the idea of back talking away from something that’s sanctioned into something that is respected, something that is practiced- Yes something that is necessary in a moment of, of authoritarianism like the one we’re experiencing now. I love that you frame so clearly that women, Black people, Black women are born into authoritarian systems. We’re simply now seeing, um, the political activity that matches what so many people have been dealing with for generations and lifetimes.

Um- Yes … a- and, you know, it’s Black feminists that constantly remind us that the personal is political. And again, this story could have stayed purely political, but you made it deeply personal. This book, uh, also includes an account of you being beaten by a boyfriend in college, which feels really striking to include in this memoir that could have stayed in a particular lane.
Mm-hmm. What made you decide that that story belonged in Backtalker? Uh, and I’m curious how it connects to the larger argument that you’re making in the book. Well, the origins of Backtalker actually began as a series of introductory vignettes- Mm-hmm … to my standard law review articles. Um, I’d been, you know, sort of lobbied for some time to put all of the intersectionality articles into an edited collection, but- Mm-hmm
I also thought, eh, it’s a little weird just to drop articles that- … are 30, 40 years old without, you know, s- saying anything. I, I, I’ve been saying it- Yeah … felt like going to a party with a boombox. I mean, you just don’t, you know- … drop in- Walking in like Radio Raheem, yeah Like, hey, hey. Right. I was like, “That’s really not gonna work.”
So I started asking myself, “Well, how can these essays be made, uh, more familiar to people?” Mm-hmm. And I started to recall the circumstances that led me to be interested in a topic- Mm-hmm … that, uh, provided some of the insight that the articles, uh, were conveying, and it became kind of, you know, more of an imperative to tell the story about- Mm-hmm you know, how did I start to think really hard about the catch-22 that women of color were placed in- Yeah … when they were facing intimate partner violence in a context of anti-Black state violence. Um, that’s what I was thinking about when I got involved in the intimate partner violence movement. And, you know, so much of the debate around that time- Mm-hmm was white women effectively saying, “Oh, but all of us experience it.” And so they would often sort of bring in the most elite white woman you could find- Mm-hmm … and say, “You see? See? It’s not just the Black women around the way.” Mm-hmm. And, and, and that stuff was driving me absolutely crazy. Yeah. Um, and at the same time, there was resistance within some of our communal spaces to paying much attention to the, to the problem- Yeah because it implicitly raised questions about the level of violence that exists- Mm … in Black communities. So- You know, there was this, uh, coalition of silence- Yes. Yes … about what was happening to us. Yeah. And it always irritated me, and it brought back to mind every time I was in one of those spaces, this is exactly what happened to me.

Wow. So the article came out of the personal, but the personal was not in the article. Yeah. So in r- writing this memoir, I basically pulled together some of the smaller pieces- Mm-hmm … and put them together into the t- into the text. So that’s the, that’s the main reason. And I will say too, Brittany, that The attack on intersectionality and critical race theory has often framed these ideas as un-American- Mm or as foreign. Mm-hmm. Or as I say even in the very first couple pages, just a product of abstract thinking that people do somewhere- Right … in the academy. Right. That’s not where my theory comes from. It’s not where my writing comes from, or activism. It’s bottom up for me. That’s right. So if that’s what it is, then it made sense to tell the stories of the bottom from which the work, uh, was generated.

I mean, con- uh, continuing in that vein and speaking of bottom up, uh, approach from the lived experience, I remember my mother and my aunts talking about what they witnessed daily as they watched the Clarence Thomas Confirmation Hearings- Mm-hmm … um, and watched, uh, the great and incredible Anita Hill, um- Mm-hmm use her voice in that moment. Um- Mm-hmm … and so that was personal in that way for them from afar. But you- Yeah … were there. You were on her legal team. Uh, we had her on our show when she was first starting her podcast, Getting Even, so we know she’s really been- Yes … reclaiming and coming back to her voice these days.

But you’ve said- Right … that you thought she lost her voice in particular as a Black woman back then, because similar to what you just said, there were white feminists who were interpreting her story one way, and then Black supporters of Clarence Thomas who were seeing it differently. What was it like to be there and watch that bifurcation happen in real time that left- Yeah her and her unique experience silent? Well, t- to say disappointing, uh, is an understatement. Mm. I thought at the beginning that we had a very good chance, even before, um, Anita Hill’s testimony, uh, of defeating Clarence Thomas. Uh, that coalition of civil rights people, uh, people of color, and, uh, women’s rights, labor rights, had defeated a candidate that was very similar, uh- Yeah to Thomas, Bork. In fact- Mm-hmm … the coalition was so successful, his name turned into a verb. We’re gonna Bork him, right? Yep. So it really displayed the power of a fully functional intersectional, you know, coalition that was able to, um, delay the shift, uh, the dramatic shift of the- Mm-hmm … Supreme Court to the right.

And so I was very hopeful that this could happen again. So when Anita Hill, uh, was, was found, and I say found because she did not volunteer to come forward. Someone else- Yeah … told the judiciary committee her story, and she was subpoenaed to come- Mm … uh, to Washington, DC. When that happened, uh, I would say the African American community was, uh, relatively split on him.

Yeah. With a slight, a slight lean against. Mm-hmm. So the NAACP finally came out against, the NBA, National Bar Association finally came out against. Very close, though. Very close. Yeah. So, you know- It’s a history … my thought was that, okay, um, this, this should be the last, this should be the final straw. Mm-hmm.

And it was the opposite of that. Not only was it not another indicator of lack of qualification for- Yeah … a lot of Black people in particular, when he did the high tech lynching thing. Yeah. First of all, I said, “That’s not gonna fly,” ’cause everybody knows that the last thing you’re in, you’re, you care about is anti-Blackness over history.

That is not your flow. And yeah. And the fact that he could just throw that out there and people in- And people sucked it up like a biscuit. Yeah … like, yeah, with some good gravy. Uh-huh. I mean, they were on it. So it, it was, it was a pivotal for, for me and for the African American Policy Forum because when, uh, Thomas was finally confirmed, my co-founder, Luke Harris, um, and I were sitting on the stairs of the Supreme Court And I said, “This moment right here, right here, is going to change the rest of our lives.”

Mm. “People don’t know it now, but it is going to change everything.” Mm. And it did. Um, and he said, “All because we don’t know how to listen to a Black woman.” Yeah. And that’s exactly… You know, you look around and see, you know, the gutting of the Voting Rights Act- Yeah … Section 5, the gutting of campaign finance reform.

These are the ways in which, um, the tech bros and other oligarchs- Mm-hmm … have been able to take over, uh, our democracy to buy their way- That’s right … into things that they can’t win through the legitimate political process. That’s right. It all is traceable back to the many 5-4 decisions- Yeah … that this candidacy made possible.

So when we think about intersectional failures- Mm … when we think about the, uh, marginalization of Black women’s stories, both in anti-racism- Yeah … ’cause she didn’t have anything that she could say- Yes … to the high-tech lynching that people recognized- That’s right … even though there’s a reality- That’s right about Black women and sexual harassment, which is why we were the ones that were the fir- the first plaintiffs in these cases. Yeah. All of that, um, i- illiteracy- Mm … around Black women is what led to this, these 5-4 decisions. Yeah. So again, it’s not just us that suffer. It’s not just our communities that suffer.

Yeah. But if we look around, our nation- That’s right … is on the cliff right now. That’s right. And much of it can be traced to the disregard- That’s right … in which Black women, our veracity, our wellbeing, has been treated by our nation- Yeah … and sometimes by our own community. I mean, we can look at the 92%. We can look at Vice President Harris.

We can look at how folks talk about Meg Thee Stallion, um- Yes … to see that that illiteracy continues, unfortunately. Mm-hmm. Before I let you go, there are women, and Black women in particular, who have been intentional about talking back, about making sure that we are not silent in these moments, um, and, and working against what Zora Neale Hurston said, that if we are silent about our pain, they will kill us and say that we enjoyed it, right?

So there are folks who’ve been trying to follow in your footsteps and talk back intentionally. As we close, what do you say to those women and those sisters who are talking back but feeling like they’re not being heard, like it’s not breaking through- Yeah … like they’re depleted and exhausted from deciding to open their mouths, um, and being rejected at every turn?

And at, at every turn. Well, first of all, I just wanna say that I get so much inspiration from those sisters who came before- Mm-hmm … um, and, and lit the pathway for us. Yeah. I mean, I consider much of my work, uh, building on and applying the concepts that Black feminists over, over centuries- That’s right have articulated into law itself, right? So it is an effort to take this sensibility and integrate it into institutions that have long functioned to legitimize, um, our marginalization. Mm-hmm. So, it is talking back with the tools that my grandmothers and my big sisters- Yeah … and now my little sisters, you know- Yeah have given me. Um, which is why I’m just thrilled to be in conversation and in partnership with you. Um- Likewise … you know, I am 100% clear that our Uh, perseverance and our leadership, uh, is one of the most significant dimensions of our freedom struggle so far. That’s right. Yeah. I’m equally clear, as Harriet Tubman said, “I could have freed a whole lot more-” Mm. if they knew that they were enslaved.” Mm-hmm. Now, I will add to that, I- she could have freed a whole lot more if people were willing to follow Black women’s leadership. That’s right. Yeah. Not, not as, you know, the, the Mother’s Day moment- Yes … you know, in the pulpit where women finally get to- Come on now actually preach, right? Okay. Or not as the folks who are doing the cooking in the back- Yeah … um, and the leafletting and the calling, but not doing the speaking- Yeah … which is basically what happened in the March on Washington. Mm-hmm. Or not being asked to stay at home and ma- and make sandwiches- Mm-hmm which happened in the Million Man March. These are all moments where we have voluntarily diminished the full power- That’s right … of us as a collective. Mm-hmm. It is not something that we can afford. We couldn’t have afforded it in the past. Yeah. And we definitely can’t afford it now. So I, I am, I fully well believe that the 92% understood the assignment- Mm-hmm along with the 87% of our brothers- Mm … who understood the assignment. Um, I’m fully o- of the belief that we have a clarity, um, that is born out of the fact that, as Langston Hughes says, “You don’t have to tell the Negro what fascism is. We know what it is.” Yeah. Mm-hmm. You layer that onto, uh, uh, patriarchy.

Mm-hmm. Um, you got misogyny- Mm-hmm … that’s at the basis of this- Mm-hmm … um, as Moya Bailey would say, and that gives us a ability to see through the, the myth that this country was born perfect and just keeps getting better. Yeah. Um, so I think that, that knowledge, that awareness, the fact that we greet each other in that awareness- Mm-hmm it is what I draw my strength from. It is knowing you. It is, you know, knowing all the sisters who showed up- Yeah … um, that makes me Um, keep going forward even when the winds try to push me back. I know, that’s right. Maya Angelou said, “We come as one, but we stand as 10,000,” and I’m so grateful that you are one of the ones and the 10,000s that is back talking.

We are going to continue talking back with you. Dr. Kimberlé Crenshaw, thank you so much for joining us once again here at Under- at Undistracted. Oh, I’m so happy. And we’ll see you real soon. And, and Brittany, let me, let me say this to you. Yes, ma’am. I hope we can see you, uh, at… ‘Cause, you know, it’s not just about the book.

Yes. It’s about really trying to mobilize people to talk back. Yes. So we have our Backtalkers Academy starting next Wednesday for- Ooh … five weeks once a week, and you know, we, we got the backtalkers, you know, coming on to help us think through this moment. So we’ll, we’ll drop some information, and maybe you can drop a link too.

We’ll absolutely drop the link ’cause we need more backtalkers, and if you are teaching and recruiting them, we need them to sign up. Thank you so much, Dr. Kim. I’ll see you real soon. Thank you, Brittany. You know, here at Undistracted, we’re all about staying, well, undistracted, finding the balance between being informed, empathetic, and open, and staying, you know, sane.

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Trust me, your inbox deserves it. That’s wearethemeteor.com/newsletters or the notes on this episode. You can thank me later. All right, y’all. I am joined today for Untrending News with the original, the OGs of this group chat. Our group chat besties, uh, CEO and Executive Director of the National Black Justice Collective, Dr.
David Johns. Welcome back. And of course, my namesake, our sister, my sister and yours, the Dr. Brittney Cooper- I like that title … professor of all things magic. That’s gonna be your new title. I’ma get you one of those things for your desk. I love it. Hey. Do it. Do it. Listen, it’s a lot going on, y’all. So, uh, to dive right in, the ICE detention facility, Delaney Hall, in Newark, New Jersey, has become the epicenter of protest over the past week after news of the inhumane conditions kept coming out.
And I wanna be clear, they kept coming out because the people were talking about it online and offline, not because mainstream media was doing their job. They’ve reportedly had food with maggots and worms in it, crowded non-air conditioned rooms, poor medical and safety care. Detainees also have alleged that immigration judges were denying their bonds in a perceived attempt to get them, get this, to self-deport, which is some extremely evil behavior.
Days of protests and arrests have bubbled over, and on Saturday night protesters reportedly stormed the barricades, although I’ve seen some videos showing that it looked like it was state police. Um, and that led New Jersey officials to enact a 9:00 PM curfew, which has led to more arrests as protesters are outside of the boundaries, by the way, and being kettled and arrested alongside media.
Again, not by ICE, but by the state police, which are run by the Democratic governor, Mikie Sherrill. So David, I know that this story feels important to you, and then Coop I wanna come to you ’cause you’re right there in New Jersey and all of this is happening in your backyard. How should we be thinking about this?
Because David, let me say this, I’m worried that folks don’t want us to criticize what’s happening up there because it’s happening under a Democratic governor, and in a time where we’re facing down fascism from Trump, everyone wants to say, “Well, don’t criticize Democrats because we can lose elections.”
But I’m sorry, the point of fascism, o- of ending fascism rather, is not to, uh, select one party over another. I feel you. That’s very- It’s to protect people’s rights and actually make the Constitution worth something again. So if a Democrat is violating the Constitution, I’m just as concerned as if a Republican is doing it.
But, but maybe that’s just me. Let’s continue to do the work to ensure that it is just not. The top line for all of us should be that when any private corporation can open a facility without permits, uh, fill it with federal detainees, and then beat them when they complain- And the goverr- sp- m- government’s response is to deny that it’s happening, that we’re not talking about any party’s immigration policy or principles.
We’re talking about caging human beings for profit with federal protection. Two points I wanna land with. One is for Black folks, um, who think that this is not about us, um, this is not something that we should be concerned about. Um, s- so many of this administration’s policies continue to impact Black folks throughout the diaspora.
Um, and while the news might only tell stories of folks who look like they come from particular regions or who might be Latinx, Latine, uh, Brown, however it is that you wanna name particular regions, we are also getting caught up and caged and beaten, um, and denied access to anyone whose responsibility it is to listen.
The thing that we are being reminded of as we look at what’s happening with ICE detention facilities is that it’s the same as the legacy that we know in the carceral system, in jails and in prisons, and in so many other places. And so I want us to work better together. I want us to continue, in the words of our sister Angela, work woke.
Um, and I want us to show up in solidarity with the, with the energy that folks like Mayor Baraka, uh, uh, Leader, uh, McIver, and so many others continue to have, uh, standing up in the face of those using power to persecute. I think what you’re saying is so necessary, especially when we look at how much independent media, citizen journalism, regular everyday folks getting outside and getting in the way, and turning their camera on to shine the light of truth, has made the difference here.
And this feels so reminiscent for me, Coop, of Ferguson. Yeah. It feels so reminiscent of Baltimore and New York, and all of these uprisings that dotted 2012, ’13, ’14, ’15, ’16, that laid the groundwork for 2020, and most certainly for how people know how to show up right now. And again, I say we have to have a bigger vision for our future and what justice looks like beyond a party, beyond midterms, beyond a single, uh, structure, because to be clear, these structures are failing us.
What I’m tired of is the, the ways in which folks continue to show up and outperform in order to try to outrun the, the, the horrors of this system, and yet our options are always, at best, these kind of centrist and therefore very cowardly leaders. Um- Mm … I’m deeply disappointed. I voted for Mikie Sherrill.
I’m a New Jersey resident. She was absolutely the better option compared to the, the Trump guy- Yeah … that we would’ve had. And she has taken on- And so you reduced harm intentionally … that, that Yes. I mean, and, and the question, the thing that, that makes me angry is, but have I reduced harm, right? Mm. Mm.
Because if you are now attacking, setting up free speech zones, what the hell is a free speech zone, right? You’re attack- Supposed to be the whole country, yeah. Right. You’re Ah, that part. The, the land is supposed to… Free the land, right? The land. So, so you’re setting up free- Right now … speech zones, you’re protect- you’re, you’re attacking protesters.
She lives in a state where when she came into office, the state legislature passed one of the strongest set of bills protecting citizens from ICE in the country, so they’re not allowed, for example, to wear those face coverings. Like, that is literally against the law in New Jersey. She has not chosen to enforce those laws.
So you have a governor who has the power of the people behind her, who has legislation about this specific issue behind her that was passed in the aftermath of what happened in Minnesota, and yet she is choosing instead to try to play nice with law enforcement. And so then this becomes a way that the Democratic Party consistently fumbles, consistently snatches- Yeah
defeat from the draw- ja- jaws of victory, and then wants us not to say this because what their one safe play is is that they know that even h- with how terrible they are, that typically they are still the better option than the worst option that we have. And my question becomes, why is it that we are supposed to continue to invest in the, the, the political dreams and aspirations of folks who when they’re given the power and the access and the literal ability to make the decisions, choose instead to fall back on this notion of law and order that these folks have exploded time and time again?
How do we take the fact that Ferguson taught us how to use the media to respond in a broken- Yeah … i- in a moment where the media ecosystem is, is way more broken than it was in 2014, and that didn’t seem possible? And how do we hold the fact that we are still now in this moment in the South having to fight for voting rights when the options don’t seem to get much better than this?
So we’ve got to push for people to be able to access the vote and still convince them to participate in the system when the people that we choose betray us. We are in a moment where our job is to figure out how to hold all of those competing pieces, and so the reality is the, the form- the Republican candidate would’ve been even worse, if we think that is possible.
And also, Mikie Sherrill deserves us to be on her neck About the ways in which she is fucking leading Period. And so that’s what we’re gonna do- And like- … because that is what the moment demands. Period. And both things not only can be true, but are true. Are true. Are true. Speaking of the vote, right, this is part of the reason why we have the kind of nuanced conversations in the group chat that you can’t have anywhere else.
Because we do have to fight to protect the vote. In particular, we have to fight to protect Black representation that is won with said vote. We’ve gotten some decent news. Um, after the Supreme Court completely gutted the Voting Rights Act, congresspeople and protestors, organizers, our friends at the All Roads Lead to the South Coalition, which many of us are a part of, they’ve been using that rallying cry to get out the vote for midterms, to sound the alarm.
And let me be clear, as far as I’m concerned, when you tell Black people, marginalized people, oppressed people that we can’t do something- Uh-huh. … that’s the second we show up and tell you that we can. So let me tell you what happened. South Carolina had a record-breaking voter turnout for the first day of early voting in their midterm primaries.
Black turnout was huge in Louisiana. You know Gary Chambers was on there every day like, “Hey, bro. Go get outside.” Yeah. I don’t care what Parish you need to be about that life. That’s right. Plus, last week a federal court in Alabama blocked a measure to redistrict ahead of, uh, Alabama’s midterm elections saying that the map in fact does discriminate against Black voters, which we know.
But it took people going outside, people like Janai Nelson at the LDF, people like Kristen Clarke at the NAACP, our friends at the ACLU, and so many others saying, “Uh, we’re not going to let you do this.” Republicans are still expected, of course, to appeal that decision. But look, a win is a win. We have to remember that we can win, and that doesn’t mean that we stop what we’re doing too long to celebrate, but it does mean that we consolidate those wins so that we stay inspired, we stay motivated, and we’ve got a blueprint for ourselves that says how we do this.
David, are you feeling like- hopeful momentum at this point? ‘Cause to be clear, we showed up and showed out Absolutely. Uh, the direct answer to your question is yes, without equivocation. Um, Callais didn’t kill the movement, it clarified the battlefield. Ooh. Uh, to your point earlier about us being clear about folks who feel like they can sit on the sidelines when we need everyone to be in the arena, um, in the spirit of which our, our, our president talked to us about that.
Uh, and I want folks to be clear that the bridge for me between Delaney Hall and the VRA, uh, what we talk about in common is that the people who are most harmed too often have the least recourse. Yeah. And that’s not an accident, it’s the architecture. It’s the systems working, as Bryan Stevenson would say, as they are designed to.
And so I want us to, um, not be lulled by the weight of, uh, the mainstream media, um, and the lies that they are often telling us, um, and/or the truth that they are distorting at a minimum, um, and to celebrate these wins. And so I want to also add to the scoreboard that recently a judge said to Felon 47, “You gotta take your name off that building.”
A judge. That Congress said, that Congress said that the Kennedy Center was, uh, for an explicit purpose to honor, uh- Come on, now … a, a president, a president who ac- acted presidentially, uh, and who was a patron of the arts, and you just don’t get to do what it is that you wanna do because you acting like Shereé, uh, asking, “Who’s gonna check you, boo?”
There are courts- We are. We are … that are gonna check you. There are people, uh- Yeah … with empowering organizations that, who are gonna check you. And the last thing I wanna say is, is also a tribute to, to both of you, which is that while we’re celebrating the wins and continue to put more on the scoreboard, I also want us to continue to, um, implement the lessons of Black feminist teachers, right?
So for Black folks who are in, in this space who still feel like this is a, a straight, uh, heterosexual, um, uh, Black people who only show up in a particular kind of way or worship in a particular kind of way fight, um, a, an organization that has powered some of this resistance is Southerners On New Ground.
Mm. Uh, and so I just wanna name that there are Black queer, Black feminist, uh, uh- Yeah … uh, folk in orientation who, who, um, were already prepared for this moment, right? A- as we know, if you stay right here, we gotta get ready. And so- Yeah … some of what’s happening now is that we are seeing, um, the, the, the flowers bloom because people tilled the soil- That’s right
uh, before this moment, because Black women, as we know, the 97%, uh, were already working woke and knew that we might be here. And I want folks to know that because you have to have a home where you’re organizing- Yeah … where you’re tithing politically, where you’re growing in your ability to hold people accountable, to leverage your power, especially while they’re investing so much in trying- Mm-hmm
to take it from us. And so my hope is that if you’re not in the arena, you will. Um, uh, get in the arena. You’ll connect with one of these organizations where you can grow. You know, Coop, I know that you’re really proud of Louisiana in particular. Um, but I also think that- You help us to understand what this moment is, ’cause this is not vote harder.
This is not vote blue no matter who. Yeah. This is not this is the most important election of your lifetime, even though I told you that last time and the time before that and the time before that. This is us understanding that this is a very strategic and surgical attack to give us Jim Crow 2.0 very literally.
As in you start off the 1900s going from 22 Black people who have risen to the halls of power in Congress on the Senate and in the House during the 12 years of Reconstruction, you go from 22 to zero. Zero of those people in Congress. It takes America another 20 years to put somebody else Black in Congress.
It takes the South another 70 years to put Black people in Congress, being Andrew Young and Barbara Jordan from Georgia and Texas respectively. And what that means is that a Black agenda was not on Congress’s mind at all. And what’s on the Black agenda? It’s what’s on the justice agenda. We’re talking about housing, we’re talking about veterans rights, we’re talking about the economy, we’re talking about all of our material conditions that Black folks have had to get in those buildings and make sure were on the table.
Without that representation, these agenda items fall even further to the wayside, and at this point we’re staring down the possibility of one-third, one-third of the Black representation in Congress being completely eliminated. Not because voters decided to elect somebody else, but because the GOP decided to put some judges in place to let them, uh, to let them cut o- the, the VRA off at its legs, uh, and move us back toward Jim Crow.
And I, I know that you really help people understand that, Brittany, that this is not just voting for harm reduction. This is something entirely different. Yeah. Listen, when I saw the, the new maps that they canceled an active election for in Louisiana to draw, and those new maps came out two days ago, and it’s just a red boot.
I know that- Mm … what they want is for us to feel intimidated and defeated, but in the state there is already an active, uh, petition campaign to recall the governor. The peop- the power of the people is not stopping. They are using every lever of power at their disposal to get these folks who do not represent their interests out of office.
I think the thing that is hard is that so often it doesn’t seem like we always understand the urgency until the dogs are at the door, and then we show up and we over-perform. And so some of the thing we have to learn is that we’ve gotta have a consistent drumbeat to keep us moving through this moment.
But the other thing I wanna say I wanna be spiritual about it and say, I know they think that that red boot means that they have won, but I know that that red boot is covered in the, in the blood of our ancestor, our ancestors, right? The ancestors who were massacred in Colfax, Louisiana in 1873, you know, ending the radical period of reconstruction.
It is Mike Brown’s blood. It is Trayvon Martin’s blood. It is Sandra- Yeah … Bland’s blood. It is all- Mm … of our civil rights and Black pow- We gotta recognize that part of what we’re doing in this moment when we tell the truth about Mikie Sherrill, when we tell the truth about Delaney Hall, when we tell the truth about the ways that the Democratic Party continues to fail, is that is our job.
Our job is to remain clear. When we are in tr- in control of the narrative, then we understand that they might think that their red is the thing that is dominating, but it is the blood of our ancestors that they are choosing to wash and sanctify these movements with. And I am enough of a church girl to still say the blood still works.
We are not- Hello! This bloodshed is not going to happen without us prevailing. It does not look like we’re gonna win, but it don’t have to look like it to mean that we are. Right. It’s real hard when our people are being locked up, when folks are on hunger strike, when our folks are increasingly unemployed, when they are being, when they are being spit out, chewed up and spit out by the system.
I know that it feels like, I know that it feels like child’s play to be like, “Everything is gonna be fine.” I am not saying everything is going to be fine. I am saying that what I see is that we’re all digging in, locking in, getting clear, organizing, showing up, protesting, voting differently- Yeah … figuring out every lever of power.
That is how our ancestors survived every moment, even the moments- Mm … when it looked like victory for the other side was sure. And the, and the thing that gives us that power is that we are the truth tellers, because you invoked Andrew Young, and the thing I wanna say is one of the things that frustrates me sometimes is that folks think that a Black agenda is only a US domestic agenda, and that is why- Come on
some members of the progressive left don’t think that they need to have any loyalty to Black folks. But Andrew Young- Mm … yo- lost his appointment as ambassador because he went and secretly met with the PLO. He met with the Palestinian Liberation Organization, right, against- Peace … Jimmy Carter’s wishes, right?
Peace. Black folks have always had a clarity about the fact that our struggle is connected to international struggle. And the thing that I am demanding as we continue to show up for our immigrant family, as we show up for our- Mm-hmm … diaspora kinfolk, is that people also remember that all roads lead to the South means pay attention to the- The global South, baby
vulnerability and the poverty- Yeah … and the fascism that Black folks have experienced in the South, because too often our progressive movements actually don’t have a proper lens on the South- Mm … and actually don’t recognize that radical movements began in the South. Resistance to slavery necessarily began in the South because it happened primarily in the South.
Hello. So you aren’t going- Hello. There is not going to be a freedom uprising in this country that leaves the South behind, and anybody that doesn’t recognize that you gotta do your bidding at the foot, the soil, and the bloodshed of the people of the South, we will lose every time if we do not stay clear about that.
But the thing is, I think in this moment what I feel heartened by in the midst of all the bullshit is I think we are clear, and I think we are ready. Mm. Yeah. And I think that somehow, someway, we will win. Peace. I know it. You know what I’m gonna use you? Was the blood. Come on. Come on. What? Come on, Coop.
Listen. Listen. Let me see. That’s Meshach, Shadrach and a bad Negro, into the chat Listen Listen It makes me wanna holler Whether you go to, uh, whether you go to a church with a Black Jesus or you go to church in the wild, let me tell you something. Not only are we- That’s good … going to win, I’m really clear when I think about the blood of the ancestors that we will not lose ever.
And there was somebody this weekend, uh, before we go I gotta, I gotta remind us, there was somebody this weekend who reminded us I will not lose ever. I see what you did. Hey. I see what you did. Hey, come on. That’s right. That’s right. In culture news, you know what? Roll the clip. Allow me
to reintroduce myself. My name is Jay-Z. I had to do it real quick. I had to have a little sidebar because- … Black joy is resistance. And baby- That’s good … when I tell you I was outside getting myself just a scooch, a p- a teach- This the day … of Black joy this week. Yeah. At the Roots Picnic, of course hosted by the incredible Roots crew.
Mm. I wasn’t there for long, right? Like, I was on the road doing other things, but I got there in time to see Brandy throw down and just cross colors. New Monica came out in her MCM, uh, situation, and I had on my MCM bag and I was like, “Twinsies. What’s up, girl?” Um, and then the GOAT. Yeah. And I’m not arguing with this about anybody who was born after Blueprint came out.
Okay. The GOAT. Fair. Fair. The one. Hovi baby. Jay-Z- Yeah, yeah … got on stage. Beyoncé was not working that night. Blue Ivy was not working that night. And there was- He came out in silhouette kinda looking like Blue Ivy. And then- ‘Cause clearly somebody got that Sacred detangling spray and combed them locks out, and-
the crown was glorious. You know what I’m saying? Like- Yeah … I already know y’all finna sell out them blue bottles. But yeah, like are y’all feeling… I, I always recognize that in moments of, of power building for Black people that we endure and engage in cultural renaissance. This is the era of Kendrick, the era of Bad Bunny, and now Hov is back to let y’all know what’s up.
Like, I’m feeling lifted by the blood of the ancestors washing us clean, and I’m lifted by being reminded I will not lose ever ’cause Hovi baby is back. Listen, never fuck with a Sagittarius. Do not play in their faces- Ever … okay? And this is what I have to say. Under a Sagittarius full moon no less.
I mean, correct. Exactly. These are my people, and I’m just saying that people had got on that man’s nerves, and he just showed up there and was like, “First of all, let me tell all of you who got it twisted.” Let me also say that I particularly appreciated the way in which the freestyle rolled for Meg.
That’s right. Put Tory Lanez under the jail. I mean, I know we supposed to be abolitionists, but put his ass under the jail and- He said, “Rock my lane, fall in, you fail.” Like, please. With the teeth talking right out the mouth. That’s right. He ride for Megan undistracted, and they ride hard for Meg with the Rock Nation.
That’s right. Yeah. Yes. I also ran my Sacred- Yeah. I love that … I also ran my Sacred back. I love that. This is, th- these curls are courtesy of Sacred today. I was like, “That’s right. You right. Let me-” Let me run it back. Listen, I’m balancing- The product team was on me … but I got Trey Taylor’s do patted on this side.
But I also wanna celebrate, you know, Mr. Teach the Babies. I love that. We, we should just name a, a, a universal acceptance that Blue Ivy is everybody’s mood board, right? Uh, everybody’s manager showed up. Uh, Mama- Come on with that, girl … her mama’s hair was also working in that crowd. I saw her too. Um, and there’s something for me, um, as I celebrate the beauty of aging, especially being reminded so publicly by these politicians that they don’t want us to, that they don’t think that we deserve to- Mm-hmm
there’s something beautiful about a, a, a man, a grown man, an actual man, um, in his 50s, um, still committed to his craft, uh, showing up unannounced, still in the work, um, still playing with his presentation to the point of how we got here. Um, for me, that’s not nostalgia. That is craft and, and it is a literal blueprint for how we can continue to, um, master our crafts and- Yeah
continue to evolve, uh, and, and play. So much of what I’m thinking about in this moment is that, uh, we get schooled out of the importance of play. Um, and I don’t think that, um, uh, folks who have the kind of freedom that Jay-Z and Beyonce- Mm-hmm … and Beyonce and Solange, like Kendrick and some, and Meg have, um, is their ability to play, um, uh, while demonstrating the mastery of their craft, their, their ability- Yeah
to improvise, uh, as we all get closer to freedom. Yeah. Listen, at, while we, uh, wrap this up, I want us to all remember that however we play, let’s make room for Black children, Brown children, all children to pra- play freely, to grow up in dignity, hope, and joy. That’s my work at Children’s Defense Fund in my full-time life.
Um, and once you go out there and play, when you get back, make sure you do two things. One, go to freedomsummer2026.com so you can make sure that you playing with us in the streets all summer long because we are extending and expanding this All Roads Lead to the South movement to keep victories coming.
And make sure that you take a look at our show notes this week because there are ways to support. There’s plenty of work for us to do, and here at Undistracted, we get busy doing it. Thank you to my group chat besties. I’ll see y’all soon. I’m still stuck on the fact that this memoir is called Backtalker, because at that intersection of Black womanhood was always so much punishment for talking back, talking slick, talking slick at the mouth, talking out the side of your neck.
However people characterized it, whenever we decided to stand up and tell our truth, it was always, always punished. That makes me realize though, that at this point in time, we’re all gonna have to be some backtalkers. We’re all gonna have to be okay accepting whatever punishment they wanna dole out because in the end, the only way we getting free is if we talkin’ back.

Thanks for listening, thanks for being, and always, thanks for doing.
I’m Brittany Packnett Cunningham. Let’s go get free.

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Thanks for listening, thanks for being, and thanks for doing.

I’m Brittany Packnett Cunningham. Let’s go get free.