Episode 9: “WE DID NOT CONSENT TO CHAOS”: THE GROUP CHAT TALKS ELECTION
Please note: This transcript has been automatically generated.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham :
You all may hear a tiny voice in the background or you know some knocking objects. But that’s because the two and a half year old wouldn’t leave me alone today. And frankly I needed that. Cuz I need some joy. And this episode is coming out on Friday because I needed a day…[speaking to baby M] Colors! I needed a day. I needed a day to breath, to grieve, to just not have to be on. I know y’all are frantically texting your friends. And frankly, I’m doing the same. So I’m putting a pause on my usual programming to get into what I think we all need right now. And that’s the real rap raw reactions on the 2024 elections, voting, and the state of our democracy. Courtesy of – the group chat. That’s of course Dr. Brittney Cooper – Brittany squared, as we like to call ourselves. An academic focusing on the intersection of race and gender – and my dear friend. And our Brother Dr. David J. Johns, who leads the National Black Justice Coalition. So Ain’t no more talking from me. Let’s get into it
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Oh my gosh. Hi friends.
Dr. Brittney Cooper: Hi.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: How are you?
Dr. Brittney Cooper: Mm.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah. That feels like the collective sigh of Black America on today, of lots of corners of America, but certainly of ours. Um
Dr. David Johns: Yeah.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: No, but I truly just wanna ask, like, like Coop, how are you feeling?
Dr. Brittney Cooper:
Um, I feel bone deep exhaustion and grief. And, um, and as much as I try to fiercely maintain my hold on joy. But today I feel deep despair.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham:
Mm. Holding space for all of that. Yeah. How about you, Dr. David J. Johns.
Dr. David Johns:
Uh, in this moment I feel like crying. Um, and if my body decides to do it, I won’t stop it.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham:
You should not.
Dr. David Johns:
Um, I hope both of you hear my heart when I say on behalf of all men, in particular the brothers that got us to a C on performance. I’m sorry. I’m sorry that we are preparing for all of us, but especially y’all, to have fewer rights than those that we have when we were born.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-Hmm.
Dr. David Johns: Um, and I think I’m vacillating between, um, like a righteous rage, um, acknowledging that none of this is surprising. This is how whiteness works. Um, and like deep concern and empathy for those who didn’t consent to this chaos,
Brittany: Those who did not consent, that is who I have sitting at the top of my mind in the top of my heart right now, alongside Black women. I’m thinking of those who did not consent in the context of my child, and all of our children, who are aged out of this process. But, um, very much aged into its results. I got back from, from being at Howard on election night, anxiously awaiting not only victory, but a victory speech, a victory lap from Vice President Harris on the yard, on her yard. On Black folks yard. And, you know, walking in, at first it felt like homecoming like 2.0. Folks were making sure that they were present for this historic moment.
Dr. David Johns: Yeah.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: And then those on those big screens, the numbers started to come back. The returns started to come in. And In my opinion, they let the returns play for a little too long. The DJ had stopped. CNN was on the screen, and the hopefulness people wanted to hold onto in that moment was dashed in the words of, these commentators and talking heads and analysts who, um, were bringing a very, very, very tough dose of medicine because everybody in, on that yard was hoping beyond hope, in circumstances that normally we do not hope in. Right. That like we believed in ourselves enough to bring us to and through that moment, and I, I just stood there and felt the energy deflate.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: And I will never forget the deep pain that that brought me. And I kept, you know, people were texting me just like, I’m sure they were you all. And like, what do we do? How should I feel? Are we gonna get these results tonight? I don’t know. I’m trying to hold on to hope. I lit a candle. I’m trying to hold on to joy. I, and I just kept saying, I am doing my best to steal my feet into this fortified soil. That is, that is all I can do. Right? That like knowing the grounds of Howard are, um…
Dr. David Johns: Sacred.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Sacred. And full up on our people’s triumph. Mm-Hmm. . And I was like, I’m gonna let this steal me for the moment. Um, and then getting home at two o’clock, passing out, realizing that it was probably already a wrap. Yeah. Um, still trying to be prayerful, still trying to remain faithful, and then waking up in the morning and having to brush off my tears because they kept flowing in order to go down and see my child who is two and a half has no idea what’s going on. Just wants to see Gracie’s Corner with me. Yeah. Um, and is smiling and happy and joyful, and I’m trying to let that wash over me. But I’m thinking of how I’m about to raise a Black child in this.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Simultaneously, I spent all day yesterday back at Howard watching the Vice President’s concession speech. Intentionally in community with Black people, and specifically with Black women. People like our good sister, Jotaka Eaddy, who founded Win With Black Women. People like our sister, president of the National Council of Negro Women, Rev. Shavon Arline-Bradley. Um, people like, um, the 5 ‘Colored Girls’ who transformed democratic politics from the inside out to even make this moment possible. Donna Brazile, Minyon Moore, Yolanda Caraway, Tina Flournoy, Bishop Leah Daughtry. People like Dr. sesha joi moon, who’s been operating in the background for so long, for so many people and was the head of DEI for Congress. They shuttered her office, but she knew her work didn’t stop. I spent time, I spent the time with them. And that’s when I moved from deep sadness to deep rage because I watched these Black women and so many more sacrifice over and over and over again and doing so under some of the most violent circumstances. Yeah. And I don’t mean that figuratively, I mean that literally. ’cause I’ve seen their texts and emails. I’ve seen the warnings that have to come from the FBI to them doing it under violent circumstances with very little gratitude and very little support because it was expected of them to hold it all together.
David:
Yeah.
Brittany:
And I’m, and I’m, in community and holding our collective feelings in that moment. The feelings of all of these Black women on campus that I’m seeing who put it all on the line, Stephanie Young, right? I mean, she like came fresh off of having a baby to come back and do this. Like, there’s a rage that I have for the deep lack of solidarity, appreciation and fundamental respect for, to your words, coop, the Black women who consistently do the custodial work of democracy and get left, hanging out to dry every single time. And for me, it is punctuated by the fact that the night before we all gathered at Howard, JD Vance stood up behind that podium and said, “we’re going to take out the trash tomorrow.” And he wanted to be unequivocal with us. He said “the trash’s name is Kamala Harris.” He was talking about every single one of us in the moment that he did that. And he did it. And it barely made a blip. In fact, plenty of people said, that’s exactly what I wanna go vote for. Let me go take out the trash.
I don’t have patience for…a disrespect that is so commonplace. People are offended when you point it out. White people very clearly voted for white supremacy in huge numbers. Donald Trump won the popular vote as a Republican for the first time in 30 years. We are clear about what won this election. It was white supremacy and it was white people voting for white supremacy. White men. And yes, white women who kept telling us on threads. They understood the assignment, but clearly on a group project, too many of you all were being individuals and not getting your sister in together. So I’m not saying that this lies at the foot of voters of color, marginalized voters, third party voters. Even. What I am saying, however, is that to have yet another reminder after watching Meg’s documentary, after seeing Sonya Massey get blamed for her own murder after seeing Claudine Gay get sacrificed for taking on other people’s causes because she, she understands our liberation knowing that she was sacrificed for taking on the work of solidarity across communities to know that Antoinette Candia-Bailey died of suicide at Lincoln University in Jefferson City, Missouri, in my home state, because of the abuse that she was receiving as a Black woman, to have watched Simone Biles get dragged all over the internet to have watched Jordan Chiles medal get stripped from her. That all of this happened in the same year. And 24 hours after we all got called trash, that was gonna get taken out to the curb. For people to have the audacity to not even be willing to hear Black women say “we are once again alone, abandoned and isolated.” Because the only times Black women are valuable to you is when we are doing something for you. To have people be defensive about that and offended by that is infuriating to me today. And we delayed this episode because I was trying not to come with this energy.
Brittany :
I know people look to us. I know we are a container for people’s feelings, and yet here we are. And guess what? The rage, the frustration, the sadness, it didn’t disappear in 48 hours magically like people expect it to do for Black women. I, I’m not here to say yes, let’s hope upon hope and give you all the Bible scriptures. I got ’em somewhere deep inside, but I’m still in grief. Not over just a candidate or an election. Not just because we have plenty of data to tell us that the worst is yet to come, but because there seems to be little, if any, repentance toward… the… absolute disappointment. Everybody continues to be the Black woman. And every Black woman I talk to is ready to go on strike. They saying, we gonna do for us. And I think people will rue the day when they look around and realize, we ain’t there to help. ’cause we never get it back. Yeah. So that’s where I am today. Do you all feel like it was like foolish to hope?
Dr. David Johns:
No. No. Um, I think that a tool of white supremacy is to lull us into accepting the permanence of the privilege that so many people, project onto Donald Trump, JD Vance, and so many other white racial actors who in this moment are signaling how fragile, white supremacy is. I want us to feel all of our feelings. Um, and I don’t want the fact that we are winning to be subsumed by the weight of this moment.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm
So much of, uh, of what has allowed us to get to this moment and our very young, um, geopolitical maturation,, is a reflection of people acknowledging that, that, that, that whiteness and its assumed, uh, permanence ain’t that.
Dr. David Johns:
And we got away from the, uh, 2042 of it all the, the, the time where people project that the, the percentage of of white folks will, um, make them a, an extreme minority. but when we’re able to step back from the theater of what we’ve experienced in this presidential election cycle, let’s not lose sight of that. And, and, and the corollary of that for me is that like there’s never been a chapter in, in the history of our people, where our ancestors, uh, began or ended with, and then we conceded, or then we capitulated, or then we gave up.
Dr. Brittney Cooper: Yeah
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: That’s right.
Dr. David Johns:Uh, that, that is, that is not in us, and that’s the thing that comes up. Uh, I don’t know that excited is the right word, but… go on strike. Fuck these and their systems care for, like, care for yourself.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham:
Hey, the white, the Black women have taken off the caves and said, we send on fire.
Dr. David Johns:
Literally, Raquel Martin is on my, on my podcast today, uh, talking about that. Right. Because you’ll take the cape off and then you’ll put it right back on when you see somebody in need burn that. Last part, part of this, um, I am heartened by, uh, the reminder that Black people understand the assignment in spite of all the lies that the media tried to tell and, and blaming Black men and, and, and all of the bullshit, that everybody you mentioned and so many others, including y’all, had to carry as surrogates for democracy. In spite of all of those lies. We… Black men and Black women, y’all, 91%, 72% by and large, demonstrated an understanding of the assignment to continue to care for one another while doing the work of creating the democracy that our ancestors fought and die for, and that we are fighting for.
Dr. Brittney Cooper:
You know? So I’m of two minds about this. So I think the direct answer is, of course, we’re not fools. Right? Um, you know, we, we always, we see around corners, right? And this
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: And down the street…
Dr. Brittney Cooper: You know, we, we can see it coming. And so our track record is always clear about where the real threat and the real harm is. But, you know, the day before the election, I’ve had up an Instagram live and I said, you know, I’m willing to be a fool for the proposition that this Black girl is worth believing in.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mmm
Dr. Brittney Cooper: So I’m managing rage at the white supremacy and the patriarchy and sexism and misogyny of it all for sure. Um, and the, the, the sort of rampant white male mediocrity of it all. I’m managing rage at that.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Oh, Child.
Dr. Brittney Cooper: I’m also managing deep, deep disappointment and fury at some pockets of the left because I think that I witnessed an abdication of a race, gender analysis that would prepare us for this moment. Um, and by that I mean that people just, even on the left, have talked reckless to Black women, have treated us like we don’t get to have any expectations of this system. Um, have told us that our desire to honor our ancestors and to honor our own story and our own narrative and the struggles that have brought us here, have made us complicit in policies that we didn’t start and that we have not been positioned to solve.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Um, and that we have been outspoken against.
Dr. Brittney Cooper: That we have advocated mightily against. And, and I think that one of the things though, there’s a spiritual issue underneath some of that on the left. And that spiritual condition is a deep ego and arrogance need to be right.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mmm
Dr. Brittney Cooper: And to, and so folks decided that being right was better than being free. Um, and that the righteousness of their position justified a disengagement.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Even if all of those folks had voted for Kamala Harris not voted for a third party candidate, and we still lost the election. Right. Which is looking at the math right now, still very probable, we would’ve been in a much different, to your point, Brittany spiritual position And communal posture to move forward together. That’s right. Because now we have fissures to heal that might not have existed had we approached each other differently. Right. Not to, not to erase the validity of some disagreements, but to rather say how we disagreed. How folks talked out the side of their neck. And some folks.
Dr. David Johns: Talk to me Nice.
Brittney Cooper: Madness
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Harmful!
Dr. Brittney Cooper: And, you know, and, and I wanna be clear that I made my, you know, ’cause I know that that seems sort of one sided, and I know that people talked out they side of their necks all over the place and in many different directions. And I witnessed it. And so it wasn’t just folks talking crazy to Black women. It was, you know, it was also…
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: No!
Dr. Brittney Cooper: Some Black folks just, you know, saying to people who are being blown off the map, like your struggle, you know, is secondary, and, and, and I think that that is, which is wild. Which is wild and, and immoral and, and not appropriate in any way. But, but what I find though is that all of it belied this idea. It’s like people told themselves that at the end of the day, Kamala wasn’t no Black girl.
Brittney Cooper:
And so therefore she was magical. She had, you know, they said she had transcended it and she hadn’t even won anything yet. And that, that is a failure of analysis on the left. And, and because I am stuck there, there are other places that I need to get to with my own analysis, but because I am stuck there, other than talking to y’all today, I have largely put myself on a self-imposed timeout. Because, because I am like, y’all debated whether or not the girl was Black. And so she ended her campaign at home. Because when we step on the yard at Howard, I’m a Howard alumni, when we step on the yard at Howard, when you get there as a freshman, there is always a banner that says Welcome home. And it is a place that feels like home. Yeah. And in the absence of her having her mama, she went to the other place that was home.
Brittney Cooper:
She left it on the field at home because she trusted that’s that place to hold her. And, and, and that was…
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: That’s right.
Brittney Cooper: That is also a signal that this country, there is no evidence from the top of this year to the bottom, as Brittany has laid out, there is no evidence that this country trusted a Black girl with an Asian mama to run this and to do it with excellence. The people who trusted that, you already can see it in the numbers. It’s Black women. And look, I, I have even managed to lay aside my Black feminist smoke for the brothers because with
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: LAUGH For that 20%?
Dr. David Johns: I have it for you. I have it.
Dr. Brittney Cooper: I have managed…
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I’m glad for the 78%. Listen, that’s C plus. Listen, we can do better. Yes. Listen. And we can do better.
Dr. Brittney Cooper: Yes. But I, but I get all the smoke when I say it. And so this time, you know why I ain’t saying it though. I’m not saying it because even if all the, if the brothers had shown up and voted at the level of sisters…
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: That’s right.
Dr. Brittney Cooper: It still wouldn’t it still wouldn’t have been enough. It still wouldn’t, wouldn’t have been enough. And even if, you know, to your point, Brittany, even if we had had a coalition and everybody had gotten on board, it still wouldn’t have been enough. And, and, and the last thing I will say is, and so as I’m watching people’s hot takes, which are on my nerves really bad, I like, they’re…
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: LAUGHS Nobody has any nerves. Everybody’s tap dancing off.
Dr. Brittney Cooper: Like, as I’m watching it, I’m just like, the other problem that I have with the lack of race gender analysis, is that I’m seeing some folks on the left who are a little bit too comfortable. So let’s, let’s say for instance that Gaza Palestine was the reason that, you know, that that voter turnout was down.
Dr. Brittney Cooper:
It’s a, it’s a little bit of an arrogant position because it assumes that all of the voter suppression that happened in my home state of Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia, didn’t happen. I’m like, when you have a race gender analysis, what you realize is that the voter suppression machine was real, and it probably can account for millions of less voter turnout. But if the left doesn’t want to take seriously that the operations of white supremacy and patriarchy are still happening, still driving this.
Dr. David Johns: Yeah.
Dr. Brittney Cooper: Still making it so that most of the country looked at Kamala and didn’t see representative of the Empire, didn’t see representative of the, of the Empire, actually saw the opposite, saw Black girl. And so therefore by birth, could never be a sufficient representative of this empire. And that is how they voted. Right. The left, you know, had this sort of narrative about how she was so much a representative of the empire, that they couldn’t trust her for progressive goals, but didn’t realize that they were fighting against people who saw her as a Black girl. Yeah. And so would never be worthy enough to actually run the country. That’s right. And it, and it
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: To, to carry the flag of empire.
Dr. Brittney Cooper: Yeah. It depends on whose story won. But I the left is trying to tell themselves right now that the story that won was that their principle about what she should have stood up for was the goal. And maybe they’re right and I don’t know the answer…
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah…
Dr. Brittney Cooper: but I think that they should seriously consider Yeah. Or that the other thing is more possible too, which is that we live in a country that never thought a Black girl was worth running it and was gonna do everything in their power to make sure she couldn’t. I think
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I think what’s so important here is that we’re all being transparent. That we have more, um, feelings than facts
Dr. Brittney Cooper: Yes.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: And that we have more questions than answers. And I think that there’s a position that we’re all responsible to take not just the three of us, but people in general, to be willing to wrestle with those hard questions within ourselves, within our communities with one another. Um, to give ourselves the space to feel the feels, even as the facts continue to become more clear. Right. And I’m not saying that we don’t have facts because we’re not smart. I’m saying that because the full picture is still emerging. I also recognize that as we talk about people, there are two institutions in particular before our time runs out, that bear discussion. One is the apparatus of the Democratic party, the other is the apparatus of media. And I’m curious from you all in this time where there’s a bunch of Wednesday morning, Thursday morning, Friday morning quarterbacking happening to say, well, the real issue is Biden didn’t drop out soon enough. Well, the real issue is the Democrats didn’t fund these people. Well, the real issue is these were the media headlines instead of these media headlines. Well, the real issue is the media wants to blame voters of color and never talk about the complicity of white voters. Like all of that is happening at once. And there’s a whole lot of externalizing, um, from the people who run those institutions,without doing what we’re a what we’ve been asking in this conversation, the people to do, which is to be reflective, to internalize the data and to say, what could I have done differently? Right. Because as far as I’m concerned, everybody should be doing that except for Black women today. So I’m curious, between those two institutions, what are you hoping is their top priority moving forward? Right. I’m not asking you to lay blame, I’m not asking you to find the fall. I’m asking you, if you look at the Democratic Party and you look at mainstream media, what is the top thing that you want them to prioritize moving into a time of authoritarianism?
Dr. Brittney Cooper:
Well, you know, what I will say is that what I’ve seen in the media is them just going back to their tired 2016 analysis.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Girl…
Dr. Brittney Cooper: Um, and literally having not learned any lessons from it. Like the working class is not just white men.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Hello?
Dr. Brittney Cooper: You know, Black girls hold the working class down in this country. Latinos do
Dr. Brittney Cooper: Hello?
Dr. Brittney Cooper: You know, uh, Asian, you know Vietnamese Right. And Thai folk. And you know, these despised Asian categories Right. Of people. Right. They hold down the working class in this country as well. And so what I don’t think should be a priority is for the Democrats to keep talking about how they just need to understand the problems of the working class. I think they need to get a serious race, gender analysis going because that’s the only way they’re gonna be able to combat the problem of white supremacy. And I also think that look, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have about two months and I think…
Dr David Johns: To F shit up
Dr. Brittney Cooper: Exactly and I’m like,
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Shake the table
Dr. Brittney Cooper: Since the Supreme Court said that you have partial immunity, you better go do some. Just run the table.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I’m saying!
Dr. Brittney Cooper: Like, you know, I’m saying?
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Bring Dark Brandon back!
Dr. Brittney Cooper: Back, give, you know, make abortion pills freely available. Make contraception freely available to all of these. That’s right. You know, literally just, just
Brittany Packnett Cunningham:
Get every Absolutely. Give everybody amnesty.
Dr. David Johns:
Study reparations, let’s ddo it !
Brittney Cooper:
Run the deficit the up. Just, just literally just Right. They
Dr. David Johns:
All pardon everybody. Civil
Dr. Brittney Cooper:
Send out stimulus checks. Stimulus checks that just say Joe Biden all on them.
Dr. David Johns:
Put your name on it. Put your… Exactly.
Dr. Brittney Cooper:
Put your name on it. Practice real Biden-omics. Like, you know, just do, do, come on, be bold. Don’t go out without a fight. That’s right.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham:
Right. That’s right. Don’t go outside. I cannot not agree with that more. Now is the time. Yeah. Do you know you have 30 minutes, we gotta get it together. Not now, but right now. Um, and this is not the time for our leaders and institutions in particular to decide to mosey toward the finish line and just shrug their shoulders and say, we tried. Right? Like, no, we tried. We need you to now do,
Dr. Brittney Cooper:
Since Netanyahu is a big fan of Trump than I say that we should just literally stop arms deal. Just stop. Just why? Just not, just we got two months. Just…
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Just stop it.
Dr. Brittney Cooper: Don’t send ’em any more money. Don’t send ’em any more arms.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I mean, should have been stopped.
Dr. Brittney Cooper: So now you already know what side Netanyahu stands on. And so at the very least, we can have two months of resistance. It might end in January, but a lot can happen between November and January. So why don’t we a whole lot, you know, why don’t you make that a priority as well? Might as well
Dr. David Johns :
Yeah.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Shoot, find some way to tax these billionaires since they over here congratulating Trump for the next two months that, that can fund a whole lot.
Dr. David Johns:
Honestly, Brittany, I I’ve been struggling. Um, um, I’m having a difficult time, um, answering in a thoughtful manner because I don’t trust the media. There’s a part of me that, again, um, righteous rage., this goes back to how we do, how we continue to organize and do the work going forward. I have more questions about the sources of information for those who shifted and did not vote. I’m much more interested in interrogating further the bro culture that has Black men saying to me that my work is invalid and invalid because I’m gay.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mmm. Or, or that your work costs the party, the, the election because we were too focused on Yeah. Those trans kids who are just trying to live,
Dr. David Johns:
Not just trans kids. But what somebody said to me in Philadelphia, and I thought about going to jail was the, the that we’re going to lose because the Democratic party is run by faggots and people that care about trans people
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: My god. My my God.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I thought about going to jail. It should be the name of the episode by the way, because I think we all contemplated in the last 48 Hours.
Dr. David Johns:
And I did, and then thought about all of what you said in terms of who I’m responsible for and responsive to. So let me just, I I will name these things that have been dwelling deep within me. I and my fiance are now pressed to decide whether or not we get married before this gets in office.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mmm.
Dr. David Johns: I, I am, I am contemplating what it might mean to live in a world where I might not have the option to, to marry the man that I love and that I know my ancestor sent for us to, to, to do this together with. Um, I, I am, I am contemplating what it might mean to be one of the people on that. Hit list. Because I have been vocal about seeing around corners and, and ringing alarm bells
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Same
Dr. David Johns: And have witnessed people who have been targets of white people in positions of, of political power. I, I-I-I-I-I, I hope that we can find ways to have more honest conversations about patriarchy and machismo as root causes of these problems. And, and for us to, to to continue to do what we know needs to be done outside of spaces that are controlled by white folks who intend us harm.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: So I’m going to, um, I’m gonna wrap us up by saying this. A) that I’m very grateful for this group chat. And I’m very grateful that, um, even in the moments when it feels the least safe to do it, that we’re willing to have the group chat conversation out loud. Um, the other thing I’ll say is that I think so many people are looking for a kumbaya moment to bring them through to the other side, to get this kind of sentimental, um, feckless weak hope to get them through to the other side that they’re looking for platitudes.
Dr. David Johns: Mm-Hmm.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: That make them feel like, oh, it’s all gonna be okay, asterisk because Black women will save us . And I think what is much more true in this moment, and I’m realizing as part of the reason why it’s good, we went ahead and had this conversation, we recorded the episode and didn’t delay any longer, is that rage is fuel too.
Dr. David Johns:
Yep.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham:
Fiery tears are fuel too.
Dr. David Johns:
Yep.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham:
The trick is to not let it consume us. Because if it consumes us, it can fuel us in the wrong direction. But it is powerful fodder. Right. It is gasoline in the tank. And if we try to rush through it or erase it and act like we never felt it, because we just wanna be the acceptable Negroes who gave y’all something to smile about, then we wouldn’t have been honoring ourselves or our people or our ancestors. We would not have been honoring this moment. We would not have been truthful, which is at base what we always commit to do here. So I wanna invite all of us to not be ashamed of whatever the fuels are. But to let it, at its proper time, be metastasized into the fuel that we need to fight the fights that keep us safe. Because for me, that’s what’s ahead.
Dr. Brittney Cooper:
Yeah. Brittany, I don’t know if you remember this, but we’ve already done this before because we spent election night,
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: In 2016 we spent election night
Dr. Brittney Cooper: Together, 2016 election night together on BET! We literally
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: SCREAMS
Dr. Brittney Cooper: We literally have already lived this…
Brittany Packnett Cunningham:
Girl, when I tell you I forgot,
Dr. Brittney Cooper:
We, it was me, you and Symone Sanders Townsend. We were all sitting on a sofa together,
Brittany Packnett Cunningham:
All sitting on the couch. And it had become clear that the Trump was gonna win by the time that we, well, by the time that we were on air.
Dr. Brittney Cooper:
So we’re just destined to do apparently this thing together.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: SIGH I’m not claiming that.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I’m not claiming that the next time.
Dr. Brittney Cooper: LAUGHS Listen.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: I’m not claiming that.
Dr. Brittney Cooper:
We’re destined to bring the people through, through the tough moments.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: We’re destined to bring the people through the tough moments. But you know what, in, in four years, we gonna…
Dr. Brittney Cooper: Two years, shoot,
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Two years, shoot. In two years, we gonna sit on that couch together this time with our brother David. And, um, we gonna
Dr. Brittney Cooper:
We’re gunna get to a different outcome for our people
Brittany Packnett Cunningham:
And uh, sing songs of victory for our people.
Dr. David Johns: That’s Right. That’s right. It’s the, it’s the, “But If Not.” I keep, um, going back to this, but remember Dr. King preached the “But If Not” of Ebenezer Baptist Church
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm-Hmm.
Dr. David Johns: And shared with us the story of Meshach, Shadrach, and Abednego, who were three young brothers who had a but if not belief in God and our ancestors
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.
Dr. David Johns: Equipping us to not just survive, but to find a way to thrive.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.
Dr. David Johns: Yeah. Um, so I, I I too wanna sow into, um, us holding space for loving on laughing with, find a ways to distract one another
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yeah.
Dr. David Johns: so we can continue to do the work of organizing. Uh, ’cause we will, we will win. We will
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Yhe weapons formed, but we not gonna let him cross.
Dr. Brittney Cooper:
And I do think this is relevant. One of the things I’ve been saying this week is we’re joy people. We ain’t always happiness people ’cause sometimes things
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Mm.
Dr. David Johns: That’s right.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Because they different now.
Dr. Brittney Cooper: And our political tradition is a joy tradition. It’s not a happiness tradition. Black people didn’t forge radicalism because things went our way. We forge radicalism because we tapped into that deep source of rage that Brittany has talked about. And we frequently transmuted into the joy of purpose, fight, struggle, and being together.
Dr. David Johns:
That’s right. The fire next time.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham:
Love y’all.
Dr. Brittney Cooper:
Love you.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham: Talk to you real soon.
Brittany Packnett Cunningham:
That’s it for today, but never for tomorrow. Undistracted is a production of The Meteor and Wonder Media Network. Our Producers are Hannah Bottum, Vanessa Handy, and Brittany Martinez. Our editor is Grace Lynch, and thanks also to Natalia Ramirez and Sara Culley. Our executive producers at The Meteor are Cindi Leive and myself. And our executive producer at Wonder Media Network is Jenny Kaplan. You can follow me on all social media @ms on all social media. And our team @TheMeteor. Subscribe to undistracted and rate and review us y’all on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or all the places your find your favorite podcasts. Thanks for listening, thanks for being, and as always, thanks for doing. I’m Brittany Packnett Cunningham. Let’s go get free.