Episode 14: “Staying Quiet is Not An Option”: Sitting Down with Women Who Have Accused Trump and Kennedy

Please note: This transcript has been automatically generated.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: (00:00)

Hi everyone. I hope you’re doing all right, and welcome to this last stretch before the holidays. Today’s episode is a critically important one, and it also includes mentions of sexual assault. So be warned and take care of yourself while you’re listening. And if you can’t listen, that’s okay too. We love you.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham:

Hey, y’all. This year is slowly but surely coming to an end, or maybe rapidly, depending on what day it is. Some days it feels like time is moving at a snail’s pace, and other days it feels like I just can’t keep up. But whatever it feels like, what we know to be true is that just around the corner is Trump 2.0. We’re all preparing in some way or another. Maybe you’re making big purchases now as you anticipate the rise in prices from tariffs or, or trying to stock up on shelf stable items, because he definitely reneged on that grocery price promise. Wow, who saw that coming. At the end of the day, we have a lot to get ready for, and there’s an open question about exactly who he is going to get to run this government. Plenty of them have been incredibly accused of sexual abuse, sexual harassment, and sexual assault. If there’s no moral leadership coming from the highest offices in the land, who’s supposed to maintain it? Well, that’s up to us, my friends. We’re the ones we’ve been waiting for, but I didn’t quite know that this was going to be our task.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Okay, so let’s rewind to two months ago in October, a few weeks before the election, 200 survivors of sexual assault took out a full page ad in the new New York Times loudly stating that Reelecting a proven sexual abuser was utterly unacceptable. I was very proudly one of those 200, and we all know how that turned out. But as the president-elect rolls out, his cabinet picks, it appears that this quality, having a record of credible sexual assault allegations against you may in fact be a feature, not a bug. You not gonna fumble the bag with that. In fact, you might get a bigger one. Trump’s controversial cabinet picks are full of people who’ve been accused of sexual wrongdoing. Former attorney general nominee Matt Gaetz, who was investigated by the Justice Department for potentially sex trafficking a minor.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Proposed Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, who settled out of court with a woman who claimed he sexually assaulted her at a conference. And proposed education secretary Linda McMahon, who was accused of enabling the same kind of behaviors and abuses within the WWE, which she co-led with her husband. We do want to note that all of these nominees have denied the charges. 

 

I don’t know about you, but I find this trend disturbing to say the very least. But it’s extremely brave women and men who continue to come forward and share their stories that make the difference. To look carefully at this moment, I spoke with two women who have spoken out Eliza Cooney, a former part-time nanny for Robert F. Kennedy Jr’s family in the late 1990s, who has come forward with allegations of sexual misconduct against the potential health and human services secretary. Kennedy has declined to publicly comment on the allegations. And Natasha Stoff, a journalist and New York Times bestselling author who was working for People Magazine when she says Donald Trump assaulted her. These are allegations he denies.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Natasha, it’s nice to see you again, Eliza, it’s nice to meet you. I wish it were under better circumstances, but I am deeply grateful to both of you for choosing to share your stories with me and with our undistracted community. So welcome. 

 

Eliza Cooney: 

Thank you. 

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

So glad to be here.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Have you all met each other before? Is this the first time

 

Eliza Cooney: 

First time, we’re waving across the screens? 

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

Yeah, I’ve been watching her story. 

 

Eliza Cooney:

Same.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham:

It’s so, you know, I have shared openly before that I am a survivor myself. And so it is always a strange thing to realize that you are in this kind of unfortunate sorority with strangers that you suddenly feel immediately tied to because, um, you share some story and some circumstance. Um, but Eliza, I I wanna start with you because your story, um, is the more recent and perhaps the least familiar to our listeners. Could you briefly share your experience with Robert Kennedy Jr.

 

Eliza Cooney:

I worked for him right outta college. I had accepted a position to work with him in his environmental law practice, but part of the deal, since this was a sort of low paying gig, was that room and board would be covered. I would live with him, the family. Mm-hmm . And I would care for his kids on weekends when the full-time nannies were off. My initial experience was he’s friendly, he’s jovial, he’s, he’s easy to talk to and get along with, and he’s funny, and I like funny people and you know, I like to be funny. So there was not a formality, let’s say, in the working relationship. 

 

Eliza Cooney: 

We had our sort of initial briefing. It was at the house at Bobby’s, and we were in the kitchen. We sat at the kitchen table. It was not a big kitchen table. Bobby was to my right around the corner. My soon to be coworker Murray was across the table. And as we’re going through and, and being briefed on this Hudson River project that we were gonna work on, I feel, you know, a knee next to my knee and a hand on my knee and a hand up my thigh. And I sort of move over and I think, Hmm, that must’ve been a mistake. And, you know, and it kept happening. I was surprised and assumed or wanted to assume, or was doing the mental gymnastics of, he doesn’t know that he’s touching me. He is somehow lost in thought and imagining that he’s next to his wife at the kitchen table, or, he doesn’t know that that’s my leg, not his leg or et cetera. He left the room and I mentioned something to Murray immediately after and I didn’t tell anybody else.

 

Eliza Cooney: 

The next instance is, uh, the time when, uh, I was living on the second floor where the, where the family lived and the kids’ bedrooms and Mary and Bobby’s bedroom were on that floor. And, and he came down the hall, um, with a big bottle of Kiehl’s lotion and, um, asked if I could do him a favor, asked me to put lotion on his back. And at the time I remember thinking “gross, this is like an old dude. I don’t want to touch an old dude.” But then I thought, okay, well if my mom came down the hall and needed me, or my dad came down the hall and needed me, would I do it? Yes, I would do it. Okay, fine. I’m gonna do the favor. I applied, said lotion on the back. He left, didn’t go any further than that.

 

Eliza Cooney:

And again, mental gymnastics, he chalk it up to, okay, you know, it’s like helping my dad out. I was naive. It was not occurring to me. All of the things that I’m now aware of, let’s say, of why that would not be normal, not be acceptable, be inappropriate…

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham:

Sure

 

Eliza Cooney: 

Slash wrong, and I didn’t talk about it with anybody. And then later, there was a time where I go in to get pasta from the pantry, and there are shelves, and I am facing away from the door toward the shelves, reaching up to get a box of pasta. And I feel him, his hands behind me on my hips, the way you might with somebody that you’re dating or involved with. And they then, you know, slid on up the sides in a sort of what one would imagine is a sexy way up to the side of my chest. He was between me and the door. I was not facing him.

 

Eliza Cooney:

I was stunned as people, as people, as you read about. People are sort of shocked or don’t move, it’s not registering, it’s like, wait, what? Um, and at that moment, uh, somebody who happened to be doing work on the property outside or wherever, walked into the kitchen, and I could not see this person enter, but I could hear him make his presence known. And it sounded more like a warning. I took it to be to Bobby, and it sounded something like, don’t do anything you wouldn’t wanna read about in the papers or don’t do anything you wouldn’t want your wife to know. 

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Mm-hmm.

 

Eliza Cooney:

At that point, Bobby’s hands dropped and I didn’t say anything. There was no big confrontation of any sort. I realized that that was not an accident. You know, there was another instance that same day where there, there had been work going on in the house and there was plastic sheeting set up where, you know, you’d unzip the plastic wall and walk through. And he like, comes up behind me and like, tries to get in the plastic wall with me, like, quit it! That was the first time that I realized really, I think what he was up to, and realized that I needed to make myself known. And in my memory, he never tried anything again.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

You said you didn’t talk to anyone about this for almost 20 years. You wrote it down in your journal, and then this past summer you decide to speak publicly about it because Kennedy is running for president. And after your account comes out in Vanity Fair, you said that Robert F. Kennedy texted you an apology.

 

Eliza Cooney: 

True story.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham:

What was it like to receive that message? I mean, were you surprised? Did it…

 

Eliza Cooney: 

No. 

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham:

Did it help? Did it hurt? Was it– 

 

Eliza Cooney: 

I was not surprised. Not surprised at all. Um, didn’t think it was the wisest move. 

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham:

His lawyers probably wish he hadn’t done that.

 

Eliza Cooney: 

Right? I mean, he has access to attorneys. He is one. I wasn’t surprised, but I thought, yeah, no, I’m not, I’m not meeting with you. I’m not talking about this like, nice try. And had it been in the same vein as the way he was speaking publicly, I might have felt differently. 

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham:

Hmm.

 

Eliza Cooney: 

But the fact that he’s interviewed about it and says, uh, oh, I would never eat a dog. Never, never, never, never. Definitely. No. Well, sir, what about the nanny? Well, you know, I’m not a church boy. A lot of skeletons in the closet definitely wouldn’t eat a dog though.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Yeah.

 

Eliza Cooney: 

Yeah. Come on, dude. Like, and then you’re gonna, on the back end, you’re gonna send this text like, oh, maybe I can clean up an aisle four quietly.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Yeah. You spoke with Vanity Fair when he was running for president, and he’s obviously now up for a very prestigious cabinet position under Trump, and you continue to use your voice. It’s clear that he might not be taking these abuse allegations all that seriously, but have you felt like the allegations against him have been taken seriously more generally? Has anyone from the Senate or the FBI, for example, reached out to you? Because of course, the FBI vets the cabinet candidates and the Senate confirms the cabinet candidates. Have you heard from anyone over there?

 

Eliza Cooney: 

Not yet.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Hmm.

 

Eliza Cooney: 

But I’m open. I consider it a civic duty.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

You’re remaining open.

 

Eliza Cooney: 

Yes.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Mm-hmm . Yeah. Natasha, you were one of the first women to share allegations against Trump back in 2016 when you went, uh, public with what happened to you in 2005 during an interview for People Magazine, where you were a reporter. 

 

So you were at Mar-a-Lago. Melania is upstairs, and you say that Trump pinned you against the wall and forcibly kissed you. When you first shared this, what did you anticipate was going to happen?

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

I thought that the voting public in the United States would listen to a story like that. And the other stories that were coming out and say, we would never want a predator in the White House. We are not voting for this man. I sincerely thought that that was how people felt and thought. I was wrong. And I was pretty darn shocked when he won the election in 2-16. And at first I thought, oh, they didn’t believe us or believe me. And then in the few weeks after that election, it dawned on me what was actually more horrifying, which is that they believed us, but didn’t care.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Hmm. When you say “us,” there are of course, multiple folks who have come out with accusations against Trump. Three of you all were on a call that I hosted alongside some other incredible leaders during the election. And you’ve shared that you’ve become friendly with dozens of other women who have made claims against Trump. What is that relationship like? I mean, obviously you’ve shared the experience of coming out, telling those stories and having people say, we know and we just don’t care.

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

Well, as, um, Eliza will probably tell you it’s a very unique situation to be in. To…it’s not unique that women are assaulted. What is unique is that you are coming out about somebody who is running for president. And so when we first told our stories in 2-16, several of us, we were very alone. Um, I didn’t know any of them then, and there was no one I could really relate to, um, or find support with. As we got to know each other, which was more 2019, 2020, we really created what as, what, to use the word you used earlier, a sorority kind of, I called a sisterhood. We’ve, we called it New York Times, a a a strange sorority. Um, and no one wants to be a member of. 

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Yes. 

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

And so what we found with each other and our stories, which were very similar and overlapping, was we found a lot of support with each other.

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

And throughout the years, and now I’ve known some of these women for, you know, 6, 7, 8 years. Not only do we talk about him, uh, but, but anytime we see something in the news, you know, we have an ongoing, we have Aooms, we have a WhatsApp group, we vent with each other. We, we allow ourselves to, to be emotional about what we see, you know, when something like happens with Diddy or something happens with these cabinet picks. 

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham:

Sure. 

 

Natasha Stoynoff:

Any, any story we see in the public about women and sexual assault we talk about and connect with and have a little bit of support session, and it’s very helpful.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

How is the group feeling since these results came out?

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

Just, you know, whatever horror we felt in 2-16 is multiplied even more so now, because for some voters, you could use the excuse that they didn’t know what he was like, you know? But now we know what this man is like.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Yeah. 

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

And, uh, you know, and I could argue that there’s still a lot who do not. 

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Yeah. 

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

Um, I, I, I told the story something I wrote in People Magazine just before the election that I had this Uber driver in Montana who didn’t really know about any of the women’s stories. 

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Yeah. 

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

And within the 10 minutes of this Uber ride, I took this woman, I had changed her vote. And because she, she was watching news that did not tell these stories, uh, you know, right wing media. And so I’m horrified of the disinformation that’s out there, but even more so horrified that people know what he’s like and don’t care that they’re voting for a sexual predator to lead the country.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

You know, I’m wondering from both of you how you respond when people, frankly on both sides of the aisle say, you know, that’s really unfortunate what happened to you, but, uh, that’s personal. Right. That doesn’t impact how they’ll do the job. Let’s separate the person from the position. Eliza, how do you, how do you respond?

 

Eliza Cooney: 

I was one of those people.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Mhmm.

 

Eliza Cooney: 

For a long time and thought for instance, during the Cuomo situation that it should not have come to be as consequential as it did. And I think that that’s a product of my not recognizing my, what I had put up with and validating. And so they go together. But my husband at that time said to me, um, we have people who can do these jobs who don’t come with the baggage. 

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Yeah. 

 

Eliza Cooney: 

We have people on the bench who are just as qualified.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Yeah.

 

Eliza Cooney: 

And that did strike me, change me. We do not need to accept that to get a certain level of skill we can manage without the baggage.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

I love that it was a man that helped provoke that thought for you because it’s a reminder that like we truly can all be in this together and recognize that all of us deserve better leadership than this.

 

Eliza Cooney: 

And it exists.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

And that it exists. Natasha, how do you respond to those folks that think there’s a bright red line between Trump and Mar-a-Lago with you that day, um, as you’ve reported, and Trump in office,

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

Exactly what Eliza just said. I think that so many have lived with a certain amount of sexual assault their entire lives. 

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Yeah. 

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

It’s woven into the fabric of reality. And I remember when my essay first came out, there were a couple women of a certain generation. And they said to me, I, I don’t understand why you’re even saying anything. 

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Mm. 

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

This is normal stuff. They grew up in the Mad Men era where it was normal for your boss to try and get you drunk and chase you around the desk, and you were supposed to have sex with him or whatever. And, and, you know, and I was a teen in the seventies and grew up in the eighties, and even then, what Eliza described, a man coming up and grabbing you. It was just so common that I think for certain amount of women, it doesn’t occur to them that you are supposed to speak out about it. 

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Yeah.

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

And, but what we have to do, if we want a woman to have respect in this country, and ever have a woman like Kamala Harris as president, or Hillary Clinton or whoever comes next, like, we have to draw that red line because now what are we telling the next generation of women? You know, I’m very curious to know what the red line is for Mr. Trump himself. Would he be upset about it and tell, yeah. Or, and tell them, oh, you’re lying. If, if Ivanka came up and said, look, if someone just grabbed me and did this, what would his reaction be?

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

To your point, what can be done right now, if anything, to stop Kennedy, to stop defense secretary nominee Peter Hegseth, and any of the other alleged abusers from achieving even more power than they already have. Right? We saw Matt Gaetz was in the conversation, and then he exited the conversation when the block got a little too hot. What do you hope senators who will vote on these confirmations and committees like the Judiciary Committee and the finance committee, what do you hope they’re considering given the options in front of them?

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

And by the way, you have someone like Trump who has the gall to say something like, I will protect the women. 

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham:

You don’t need to say that…

 

Eliza Cooney:

Where does he…

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

The only person he is trying to convince is himself.

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

So the problem is that you have half the country, or more than half of, or, or voters who just believe anything he says. So in answer your question, I would say we have to just keep getting louder and vocal and protest and, and speaking out. And the problem is now that he’s gonna be back in the White House, there’s more fear of speaking out again. 

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Yeah. 

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

Because now they’re in charge, so there’s more fear again to shut up. But now more than ever, we can’t shut up. We just need to keep being vocal. I mean, Christie Blaze Ford, when she spoke out, I mean, I still see so much backlash against her when she was speaking out against Kavanaugh, but staying quiet is not an option.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham:

Eliza, imagine for a second that some of the finance committee members, including Republicans, like, uh, Senator John Cornyn or Marsha Blackburn are listening to this podcast. That’s a long shot. They’re not really part of our target audience. Mm-hmm. But just in case, how would you like them to weigh what you’ve said happened to you as they make their decisions? Because even the New York Times is reporting that there’s some Republican women in the Senate who may be taking these claims more seriously. What words do you have for them?

 

Eliza Cooney: 

We can do better. What else do you got? I know there’s someone else. I know you have lines of people. This is not a singular person. Find something better. There is better.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Natasha, you were talking a little bit about some of the broader implications of the situation we’re in, where we’ve got significant numbers of people and the president all accused of sexual violence. What should we truly be expecting from leadership? What should we reasonably expect from our leadership, from our institutions? Is that a place to which we should continue to look for moral leadership? Or do we just need to let that fantasy go?

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

We can’t let that fantasy go. <sigh> Then we give into the dark side and let take over. I say, I’m sorry to sound so dramatic.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

But it is that dramatic. 

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

But I, that’s how I feel. And I, and I, I just, I, I myself hold onto the hope and belief that there are enough good people out there and enough good people in charge who are there to actually be helpful to the country and people Who, who will stand against, um, the predators or, or those who lie to us and, and not let it become the norm. Again, used a phrase like, boys will be boys earlier, and, and I think of Melania talking about locker room talk. 

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Yeah. 

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

Um, after, when Trump’s all those allegations were coming forward, and this is how we turn something horrible into something that people can accept and it’s dangerous. So, um, I think that the people in our, our leaders have to keep pointing out the dangers and sounding the alarms.

 

Eliza Cooney: 

This is the United States of America. We have the best, there is no reason we wouldn’t put the best in charge of these positions. Go get the best people and put ’em in. Let’s go. Yeah.

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

Well, look who we pick for president though. I mean, , if we’re gonna talk about picking someone good for the job, let’s start it there!

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

You know, what occurs to me that’s, that is even scarier, is not just that it’s becoming normalized, but my worry is that some people may actually see this alleged violence as a sign of strength and power and masculinity and dominance and something to which. We should aspire in our leaders instead of have it be disqualifying. Natasha, is that something you feel like you’re seeing as well?

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

I think in desperate times, a certain personality appreciates a bully in charge. They want, you know, you know, as, as lots of us talking, I’m thinking, what the heck makes a man think? He could just go up to a woman he barely knows and grab her. What, what makes him think it? Well, that’s the kind of man who thinks he can just take what he what he wants. 

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Yeah.

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

Damn everybody else. And maybe a person in a certain situation feeling desperation or anger or a crowd mentality wants a bully in charge. Now, I’m not like that. that’s not supposed to be what this country is about. I mean, it is maybe how this country started.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Well, now that’s the thing.

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

The whole point is we’re not supposed to, we’re trying to change that, but it takes a long time for change. And there are a lot of people who just believe a man has to be in charge and a man has to be aggressive.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

And that those two things are just always gonna go together.

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

Are we gonna elect a really intelligent, educated, brilliant woman to be the president? No. We’re gonna elect a bully because it’s like a default position for many people.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Eliza, we talked a little bit earlier about the presence of men in this fight. Where they at? Where are the men? Yeah.

 

Eliza Cooney: 

Yeah, where are the dudes at? The dads, the brothers, the fathers, everybody. Is it that they don’t know how often this is happening? In all the years of our life, we, women are faced with this. So I wonder if we do ourselves a disservice by not flagging All. The. Time, because people, men may be unaware. The good men who are surprised by this, I’m shocked that people are surprised. Like, what do you think is happening? So they’ve just gotta ask somebody 15 minutes and they’ll get a litany of experiences. If they can truly hear all of that, then they, they’ve gotta be outraged, because if it is their daughter or whomever, you’d think there’d be a lot more fights in the street. I don’t get it. So I’m, I’m thinking they must not know I’m going with that.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham:

You’re so for giving them that grace.

 

Eliza Cooney: 

Yeah. But it’s also an ask of the women who maybe haven’t thought of themselves properly transgressed or transgressed enough, or assaulted enough or violently enough, or that it has to be extreme. It doesn’t. It’s all these micro, every day, every year, every job.

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

It’s the doctors, it’s the priests, it’s the teachers. Mm-hmm . It’s the guy you work with. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s in every area of life I’ve experienced. And so have other, most women.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham:

Let’s close by talking about the women. We’ve spent time on the men. Eliza, you’ve been really upfront. And that to choose to come forward with that story is its own hurdle. Right. Um, you said that, you know, for women who are considering coming forward now, there is a very legitimate intimidation factor because it looks like a lot of risk for not a lot of reward, especially now that we know how America has voted. So Eliza, what would you say to other women who are either on the journey and understanding what happened to them or who may be on the fence about, about coming forward?

 

Eliza Cooney: 

There was a lot of anxiety beforehand, and I would say that the fears that I had have not materialized, and it is much better on this side. I would say, come on in, we’ll catch you. The water’s fine. And the reception and the support is really rewarding. I’m, it’s not that I would say I wish I had done it sooner, but I would love to encourage women, give them any strength that they need to take that plunge, take that step, because it is better on this side. And we are here. For you,

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Natasha, you have shared that you wish you had come out a bit sooner, and it shouldn’t be a burden you have to keep caring, but you are still continuing to speak up. Why is it important to you to keep doing that?

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

You know, it’s interesting. Um, I turned 60 in two weeks, and when I came forward, I guess I was about 51. And, and I did, I did not come forward when it originally happened. And I think that as you mature, you just start realizing, or at least for me, that, that there’s a bigger picture here. 

That you’ve gotta fight for, that it’s not about the individual anymore.  I feel less afraid now because I’m thinking about the country, the world, humanity’s future, and I just feel like me being upset by, you know, death threats or, um, horrible, ugly emails I get from strangers at three in the morning. Like a soccer mom emailed me the other day and said “you pig, you whore.” Whatever, you know, it was worse than that. And I actually sat down and wrote, wrote her back and said, why are you moved to, to write such ugly words?I see your Facebook page, you have two kids, and you’re like a regular person. What, what is driving you to sit at your computer three in the morning and write these ugly words to someone you don’t even know? I want to make, help try and be part of the change for good. That’s what I’m thinking. And that’s why I keep speaking out, even though it’s not always the easiest thing. And I do, part of me does, wish I spoke out earlier, but I do understand why I did not at the time. There were so many things that were, were, that could have been harmful to me, but I’m trying to make it up, up for it now.

 

Eliza Cooney: 

I think sometimes women, um, assume something needs to be quite egregious for it to be mentioned. And I used to think, well, if something super egregious happens, you have to say something. And then I thought to myself, well, why am I not saying anything? Well, ’cause it’s not egregious enough maybe or whatever. I then realized that I did not want to tell my daughter, um, later, oh, that guy was running for president and he did that to you? U-huh. And what did you do? And what did you say? And I would answer nothing, absolutely nothing. And I thought, how can we expect this to change if I’m not willing to do…not nothing? And you know, if I can’t do it, why do I expect somebody else should do it? So, so I did it. And, um, and you can too. All of you ladies out there who are thinking something happened to me. Yes. Say it, verbalize it. Call us. You don’t have to be public, but you, you can call us or whatever. Like, let’s get you through this. Yeah.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

Well, Natasha, happy early birthday and to both of you. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for your continued courage. We are truly indebted. No matter what happens from here, um, that you’ve told your stories that you’re still telling them and that you’re helping so many others do the same. Thank you so much for spending time with us.

 

Eliza Cooney: 

Thank you.

 

Natasha Stoynoff: 

Thank you for having me. Thank you.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

The direction we take from here is determined by us and only us, I think often of my friend, our friend, professor Anita Hill, who has had to live with the reality for over 30 years now that she credibly and publicly accused Clarence Thomas of sexual harassment and abuse before he was confirmed to a lifetime appointment on the highest court in the land. I think of her often as she’s had to sit there and watch him rule on cases that he should have been disqualified from. I think of her as she’s had to endure the kind of public shame that he and so many of his acolytes tried to heap on her simply for telling her truth. I think of her often as she tried to do what so many people have tried to do, do the hard work, the brave work, the courageous work, the terrifying work of telling your truth to try to save an entire country, and then to have people throw it back in your face and tell you, we don’t care.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: (39:52)

Some of us have to care. Some of us have to care enough to make it safe to tell these stories. Let’s continue to make sure that even when we think folks aren’t listening, we shine the light of truth.

 

Brittany Packnett Cunningham: 

That’s it for today, but never for tomorrow. We’ll be back in the new year with brand new episodes. Undistracted is a production of the Meteor and our friends at Wonder Media Network. Our producers are Vanessa Handy, Brittany Martinez, and Alyia Yates. Our editors are Grace Lynch and Maddie Foley. Thanks also to Natalia Ramirez and Sara Culley. Our executive producers at The Meteor are Cindi Leive and myself. And our executive producer at Wonder Media Network is Jenny Kaplan. You can follow me on all social media @mspackyetti on all social media. And our incredible team @TheMeteor. Subscribe to Undistracted and don’t forget y’all, rate and review us y’all on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Thanks for listening, thanks for being, and thanks for doing. I’m Brittany Packnett Cunningham. Let’s go get free. 

 

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