Episode 17: “If We Ever Felt Like Fighters, Now’s The Time to Prove It,” with Cori Bush
Please note: This transcript has been automatically generated.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
Um, I don’t know about you, but this has been the wildest year, and it’s not even February yet. Like in 2020, we clearly went through something together, <laugh> as a globe. But if memory serves me correctly, the year 2020 started off relatively quietly. I mean, at least compared to the way 2025 has begun, we got multiple terrorist attacks, a water crisis in Richmond, Virginia. We’ve got LA wildfires that at the time of this recording are still waging. Y’all, I just got an essential water use only warning lifted in my county in Maryland. I don’t know what’s going on. This might be a foretelling of things to come. I really, really, really hope. It’s not ’cause I’m tired of being on God’s strongest soldiers list. And frankly, I know you probably are too. But here’s the thing, no matter what’s coming, the only way forward is together.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
And I don’t mean in that hokey way where like we just ignore racist people and bigoted people and xenophobic people, and we just all gather together and sing Kumbaya like it’s the end of a campfire. No, that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about together in fortified, solidified solidarity and community with people who not only share our values when they’re talking on the internet, but the people who show up when it’s time to show up. I think that’s what we’re seeing in Los Angeles with people being massively creative and how they use their gifts, their talents, their time, their treasure, to make sure that their neighbors, whether they’re across the street or across the city, or across the country, are well. And that’s exactly the example we need right now. Man, shout out to Los Angeles because that spirit of production and creativity y’all have always had is serving you very, very well right now in the midst of what is yes, a natural, but also manmade disaster from every indication.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
What is also clear to me is that the human spirit, our instinct to be neighborly, our instinct to orient to our community when we are in our most dire straits, is just as real as the circumstances we’re facing. In fact, it’s more real. It’s more indomitable. It’s undefeatable if we lean into it. The trick, of course, is to not just lean into it when we’re in our most extreme disasters. Just like in the times of COVID, just like we talked about earlier this season, we made commitments when we were in trouble in 2020. We increased levels of accountability and increased the practice of mutual aid. We increased the presence that we had in each other’s lives. The deliberate ways that we showed up during COVID were felt. And then when it was over, a lot of us just went back to business as usual. So how is this time gonna be different? Because the lessons we’re learning from how we show up for each other in the LA wildfires are the lessons we’re gonna need for how we show up for each other in Trump Era 2.0.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
On today’s show, the inauguration is just days away and we are in the middle of some wild confirmation hearings. So, I sit down with the woman I know will understand it al,l my good friend, former Congresswoman Cori Bush.
CORI BUSH:
So what are we leaving? Are we just going to sit back and allow Donald Trump and all of his cronies to just come in and wreck shop?
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
But first the news. I don’t know about y’all, but this week it’s been hard to think about anything but the fires in LA. So instead of our traditional untrending for this episode, I just wanna talk about what’s on everybody’s minds. We reached out to Leah Thomas, an environmental activist and educator who had to evacuate from her home in Los Angeles last week. We wanted to know what she’s been going through and what we don’t know about these fires that we should.
LEAH THOMAS:
Hi, my name is Leah Thomas. I am an environmentalist, the author of the book, The Intersectional Environmentalist. And my background is in environmental science and exploring the relationship between climate and culture. My experience with the fires has been unlike anything that I’ve experienced before. This is the first time tragedy of this nature has struck so close to home. Evacuating was horrifying. I live pretty close to Pasadena and was monitoring every fire app really closely. And at a certain point I looked around the map and north, south, east and west there were fires in all directions. So, California’s had fires before and they’ve never gotten this close to several residential neighborhoods at once, especially ones that aren’t necessarily in the mountains or the hills. I decided to evacuate when I saw how close the fires were getting to me. And it was a really scary and paralyzing feeling. And I just feel really thankful that I had somewhere to go in San Diego.
LEAH THOMAS:
I think people outside of Los Angeles need to understand how unusual this is. I also think people outside of Los Angeles need to understand that there’s not just a ton of rich celebrities. I know that that’s what a lot of people are seeing on the news, and that might make some people feel less sympathetic, which again, I don’t know why. But California is a town that struggles with immense housing inequality. And in Altadena specifically, which had such high African American home ownership and such a rich Black history of the area, having, you know, 30 plus Black families lose their homes. These are homes that were passed down from generation to generation. Um, some of these homes had 10 plus people living in them. The cost of evacuation is extremely high, and over a hundred thousand people had to do that. And we’re facing some sort of financial burden, whether it was, you know, having to pay for a hotel or having to pay rent while also paying for a hotel, not having food, not having water, having to use tap water. The situation was and is still really dire.
LEAH THOMAS:
The people who are the most impacted by social injustices, also get the, the kind of heaviest burden when it comes to environmental outcomes. So there are a lot of people who are uninsured and can’t just rebuild. There were insurance companies that canceled policies and they can’t just rebuild or their home was all that they had.
LEAH THOMAS:
I was able to evacuate with my cat. So that’s bringing me a lot of hope. I’m also in San Diego right now and I’ve been driving around the city collecting donations from people, uh, who want to get resources down to Los Angeles. I’ve also never seen a response like this at this scale to a natural disaster in decades. But it’s at the point where some donation centers are having to turn away donations and volunteers because so many people want to be involved. So I think that just goes to show what kind of city Los Angeles is. I feel like a lot of people feel like the federal government isn’t going to save us, so we have to save us. So I think this is a beautiful example of mutual aid and the town really coming, coming together.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
Leah, thank you so much for sharing your story, your energy, your knowledge, and most importantly, your time, which I know is incredibly precious right now. If you wanna keep following her, you can find her on Instagram at @GreenGirlLeah. If you wanna help folks or if you need help, mutualaidla.org has a really extensive resource library that they’re continually updating, we’ll link that in the show notes. We’ll be right back.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
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BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
All right, y’all, this week has been, uh, let’s say a source of heartache, <laugh>, and mistrust for some of those people. Some of y’all put in office between the TikTok ban and the incoming presidency. It can feel as though we have no one left in our corner fighting for us, except for maybe Michelle Obama. ’cause she’s skipping this inauguration too. <laugh>. But, but honestly, we still got a lot of people fighting for us. And while some might see these outcomes as a sign that progressive ideas are losing momentum, others see them as a call to find and execute new avenues of justice that will help us survive not just these next four years, but help us thrive in the days to come. Cori Bush is an activist, nurse, and former US Representative. She was elected to Congress from my home state and district, the Missouri first, in 2021. And she served for four years before unfortunately losing her primary last year. She and I have known each other for years. And as we unpack the current state and future of progressive politics, her knowledge inside and outside of Washington is truly invaluable.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
My forever Congresswoman Cori Bush. How are you? It’s good to see you.
CORI BUSH:
You too. Thank you for that. Um, you know, good to see you. Glad to be back.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
I wanna say happy New Year, but I also wanna say wild New Year. I also wanna say what in the world New Year, like I have, I have some choice words <laugh> about this new year. We are two weeks into it as of our recording. And it has already been wild. And if that is a foretelling of things to come <laugh>, then we need to be prepared. And that is why ahead of this inauguration, I was like, let’s, let’s call up our girl Cori. You know, you are a long time friend of this podcast. You’ve been on literally every season because you always bring us wisdom. Um, and I’m so grateful for you taking the time. ’cause I know you’re busy, but like I said, we’re, we’re just a couple of days out from inauguration and I feel like the public sentiment is equal, parts stressed out and just over it. Right? Like, people are like worried about what’s coming, but also too exhausted to worry too much. So I, I would just love to know how are you feeling about this transition politically, but also personally?
CORI BUSH:
It really is. And you know what it feels like just, I was just thinking about it as you were talking, um, and just thinking about, like, what I’ve seen and heard just around the country. It just feels like this collective gasp. Like everybody’s just taking this, <SIGH> You know, part of it being, we know what’s about to come and we know it’s going to be treacherous. We know that it’s going to be unbelievable all the time and we won’t be able to handle or fix one thing when the next 10 fall upon us.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
Right.
CORI BUSH:
And then I think that there are others who are like, um, well we did, we’ve done this once. We can get through it again. So like, I’m just gonna turn it off. All of this is noise, you know, that we are hearing it’s going to be fine. But like you said, just what we’ve seen over the last couple of weeks, you know… Look, we, I remember back 2020, you know, we were like, what the freak, you know
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
Yeah. <laugh>
CORI BUSH:
Because it was just like, like, you know, it was just crazy. And, you know, we thought that like the world was doing this crazy thing, um, where, you know, every life was going to be different from there on. And then, you know, you have Donald Trump, you know, you had just so much was happening. And then every year since then, it just seems like we’ve all, we’ve been like, oh my goodness, this is bad. Last year was terrible for some of us, you know. Um, but now, you know, I feel like, um, even though I’m taking just a little bit of a break to get just a little rest for a couple of weeks…
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
That’s good. That’s good.
CORI BUSH:
But I feel like if we ever felt like we were fighters.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
Mhmm.
CORI BUSH:
You better show it now.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
Mhmm!
CORI BUSH:
Figure it out now. Because I know, it’s, it’s like we were learning how to be fighters, all of this stuff. Going back to protests that you and I come from, you know, back 2014 and everything that we’ve done since then. I feel like now this was us getting our chops. This, that was, that was us learning. That was us getting prepared for all of these different types of situations to be ready for now. So, you know, and I’ll say this, I I, I love my Black women. I’m one proud and strong, but Brittany, I hear when my sisters are saying, you know, well let somebody else do it. I’m done.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm
CORI BUSH:
I get it. I get it, I get it, I get it. If anybody gets it is me <laugh> what I just came through.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
I mean, clearly.
CORI BUSH:
And right now, you know, I’m trying to like have a livelihood, um, right now, ’cause of that.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
Right.
CORI BUSH:
But the thing is, our children have to live in this world. Our spouses, our legacy has to be able to, to, to live and survive and thrive in this world. So what are we leaving? Are we just going to sit back and allow Donald Trump and all of his cronies to just come in and wreck shop? To come in and destroy, um, our communities, even the more, because we are tired? So when did our feelings dictate our actions? When do we decide that, you know what, I’m tired. I’ve done enough because my, my favorite candidate didn’t win. I know it hurts. I know it hurts. And I know we don’t get the respect that we deserve. The outcome hits our kids the hardest.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
I think so much of it as it really shakes out, right? Like as, as the feelings get felt right. And we, and we process them as Black women. I think what I’ve seen so much of it shake out as is similar to what you’re doing. I’m gonna take a break. I’m gonna make sure I can breathe. I’m gonna make sure I can feel my feelings. I’m gonna make sure that I take care of myself as a human being. Because unfortunately people keep showing us that nobody else is going to. So we have to treat ourselves that way. And when I pick the work up, the work will look different. Right. The, I will be committed to being a fighter, but fighting strategically. Right? And fighting in such a way that I require respect from people. Otherwise, <laugh>, we not comrades. I’m gonna be fighting over here. You got it over there. I, and I just think that so much of the work looks different and it is, I think a much more intentional mix of self-care and strategy. Speaking of self-care though, let me, allow me to be petty just for one minute.
CORI BUSH:
<laugh>
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
Are you a little glad that you have a very ready made excuse not to have to go to this inauguration? Like, you know what I mean? Like, you don’t have to put on a press statement. You don’t have to put on a…
CORI BUSH:
I don’t have to do anything.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
You said, I ain’t gonna be there!
CORI BUSH:
I don’t have to do anything!Look, when the invitation came, my staff were like “Um, Cori…” And I just looked at ’em and that was it. We didn’t have to discuss it. So we didn’t have to say anything.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
Okay.
CORI BUSH:
We didn’t, I didn’t have to come up with something to, you know.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
Decline.
CORI BUSH:
Nothing.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
Listen, I don’t need tickets to the circus. The UniverSoul Circus comes to town every year. I’d rather go see Black people under the tent doing their thing. But, so, you know, we’re talking about this shift that is coming to our country. Certainly this shift will be reflected in Congress, right. Which has already gaveled in, um, we’ve seen the swearing ins. Um, we’ve seen these very fascinating moments of who was willing to shake Vice President Harris’s hand and who wasn’t. And with this shift in Congress, which is now under total Republican control in both chambers, rather, based on what you’ve experienced, what challenges do you think your colleagues in the Democratic caucus are, are gearing up for?
CORI BUSH:
Just an onslaught of just values that take us further away from being the America that we are told we are supposed to be. This place where, you know, this life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. But when I say onslaught, I mean in every single area, they’re gonna have to fight for, uh, things where, okay, we know that this is the line. Democrats are going to usually go this way. Republicans are usually gonna go this way, but they’re gonna have, it’s gonna be so much. I believe that, you know, it’s gonna get to the point to where some of them are just going to probably just get tired and not be able to fight at all. I think that the other thing is when Elon Musk came out and said, I saw a tweet from him, I don’t know if it’s still up.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
<laugh> President 2.0.
CORI BUSH:
Yeah. Yes, exactly. Um, you know, and I think he likes to hear that.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
Um, of course he does. Yeah. <laugh>. Yeah. That’s why he’s here. That’s, that’s why he’s all up in our business.
CORI BUSH:
Know, all over the place. Yeah. Um, and you know, he made a, a, a tweet that he would be willing to put money up to challenge Democrats who, you know, weren’t in line with Trump’s, who wouldn’t get in line with Trump’s agenda and challenge them with more moderate Democrats.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
I mean, even though the Democrats are in the minority, do you think there are opportunities for them to get anything done on the issues we care about?
CORI BUSH:
I would be surprised. And I would be surprised because, you know, sometimes that takes having Republicans that believe, you know, like “No, I have constituents in my district who really need this.” And so they’ll push back, you know, a little, some of the Republicans I’ve had conversations with who said to me like “You’re right. I believe what you believe, but I just can’t say anything because I will get challenged in my district.” So I think it’ll be harder now.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
Yeah. Courage is even more costly than it has been.
CORI BUSH:
Yeah.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
You talk about your time in congress conversations you’ve had, you really had a front row seat to how Congress moves and operates its strengths, its weaknesses. I think it’s so interesting that as voters and constituents, we don’t always get kind of an exit interview from our former elected officials. Right. Um, so now that you’re like a free agent, I gotta know, what is the grade you would give Congress for where it stands today? Like what would your exit interviews sound like? Are there things that if you had that magic wand, you’d know you’d come in and it would be the first thing you would change
CORI BUSH:
In order to really get stuff done, we have to change the impact that lobbyists have on Congress. Like so much is just not ever going to change if we don’t push back lobbyists, especially these corporate lobbyists who are able to buy members of Congress.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
Mm-hmm.
CORI BUSH:
We don’t get to see the true people that were elected because oftentimes they’re making the decisions based upon how do I get to stay? Um, or how do I get to build up my personal name so when I’m done I’ll have X.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
And, and go work for a law firm so that when the block is up, I’m allowed to go and work for said lobbyists who are paying me in the first place. Right? Yeah.
CORI BUSH:
Exactly. Like that has to be dealt with. So whether we’re talking about what APAC was able to do in my election and Jamaal Bowman’s election and, and the elections of others, because I have colleagues who, again, on the democratic side will say “I wanna vote this way with you all.” They’ll come, you know, to Squad “Oh, we wanna vote this way with you all, but I, you know, I can’t.” It would break my heart because you know, like the people voted for you to be this person that they thought you, you know, you would be. And it’s really hard for me because I can do the same thing. Let’s be clear. I could have walked into Congress and chose to talk to all the lobbyists, go to all the parties, take all the money. You know, I could have made that decision. I could have kept my mouth shut in some areas.
CORI BUSH:
I could have went a leadership track and tried to get a name for myself that way I could have done all of that. People need to understand, let’s be clear. I could have done that. I made a decision that’s not who I am and that’s not why I wanted to be in Congress. And that’s not why God sent me there. So sometimes I would be sitting in the chamber and I know that I’m one of the only ones voting no on a bill or voting yes on a bill. You know, I’m the opposite of my Democratic colleagues. And I am sitting there and I see, you know, <laugh>, you know, people just jolly and happy on the floor. And I’m sitting there torn, because I know it’s about to be hard. I know they’re about to be attacks against me because of this, but it’s more important for me to stand up and you believe what I believe, but you’re taking the easy route. And so that would be so hard for me.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
You know what’s so interesting is you’re being so vulnerable about how challenging it was to carry the weight of that courage. But after the election, you said, looking back in Congress, you feel like you could have flipped even more tables.
CORI BUSH:
Yes!
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
Tell me about that.
CORI BUSH:
Yes. Because I didn’t, so had I known my time was going to be this short, and I, I said in multiple interviews over the last four years, and it just hit me the other day because I had said over and over again ’cause people would say, like “where do you get this? Like this, this, this passion and this fire from like, what sustained you?” And I would say, I felt this urgency and this weeping and never went away. Um, and it’s just like go, go, go get, get a bill for reparations, get a bill to deal with policing, get a bill to do, you know, all of these get a bill to, to help the unhoused get a bill, like fight, fight, fight. Get the ERA, like, you know, help the people of Gaza, like fight, fight, fight. Um, but had I known that I only had those four years, I would have flipped more tables instead of having that one protest on the house steps probably, you know, for the eviction moratorium
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
You said, I would’ve just lived out there <laugh>.
CORI BUSH:
I probably would’ve just, you know
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
Right. Moved on in because there’s plenty to protest about.
CORI BUSH:
Yeah!
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
I respect that so much. I think that a lot of people’s hindsight says, what could I have done to preserve my position, my seat, my title. Your hindsight is saying, what could I have done to tear it up even more? Right. If, if I was only gonna be there for a limited time only, how was I going to rec shop in ways that moved us forward even more than I have. And I think that this is an open question that people have, especially right now for the Democratic party, right? That like, if everybody spent the last election calling the person who is about to be inaugurated a fascist and actually believed it, then how do you behave <laugh> when the fascist takes office and you are standing opposite him on the Capitol steps. Do you think that given how this election cycle went, the Democrats as they do their soul searching, do they have an image problem? Do they have a messaging problem or is it a reality problem? Does there just need to be a whole shaking of the table?
CORI BUSH:
There has to be a whole shaking of the table because, you know, for so long we were saying that if there’s a messaging problem, there’s a messaging problem. And yes, there is a messaging problem, still! Um, I mean, we still have people saying “Oh, well I lost my race because of defund the police. Because you all believe defund the police.” I mean, we’ve been saying for years, like, if people keep saying that, then you should have you not figured out over the last several years how to message
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
Mm-hmm.
CORI BUSH:
The issue is we also have a hypocrisy problem. And that is how the messaging gets messed up as well, because we can’t say that we are the party of civil rights and human rights. You know? And then we can’t even get George Floyd justice in policing, even though so, so many of us were like “This isn’t even enough.” But we didn’t even get that, you know, when we, we can’t say we’re for human rights, but then we’re like, Hey, it’s okay to bomb children over in Gaza, you know, and send taxpayer money from the United States over for bombs to drop on children. But here, you know, we believe that, you know, each person, we should be able to live in dignity and safety. I, I don’t, I don’t get it. You know, we say we need money for educate.. affordable housing and education and all of these areas, but then we send money by the millions, by the billions to Israel for war.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
That hypocrisy, I think, had a lot of people not even necessarily choosing to vote Republican, but choosing the couch. Right. And I think that so many of us were trying to send the message: You need to convince people to not choose the couch and there needs to be substance there. Right? That it’s not just effective messaging, but to your point, effective policy that people can believe in. And I think that to a point you’ve been making consistently, there are folks who wanna get out there and say that and can be really hamstrung by party infrastructure. So we say. So now that we’re in this circumstance, <laugh>
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
I’ve been of the mind that, you know, as a student of history, I know that states rights have always been weaponizing against marginalized people, Black people in particular, right. State’s rights was about killing reconstruction. States’ rights was about, um, affirming Jim Crow state’s rights was about ensuring that sexism and racism and anti-Black racism could be legally binding.
CORI BUSH:
Yes.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
Right? I know states’ rights have never been for us. And yes, <laugh> right now I am like, gimme them states rights because it’s, it’s like all I got, right? Like I, I live in Maryland under the leadership of Wes Moore, you know, I got a Black first family that’s progressive, that has made great moves on criminal justice and our education and on healthcare.
CORI BUSH:
<laugh>
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
I, we just elected a Black woman senator, right? It’s two whole Black women senators in the year of our Lord 2025.
CORI BUSH:
Yeah. It is.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
I’m even looking at our shared home state of Missouri. Knowing how fraught and frayed the leadership is down there, but also having witnessed the incredible work of so many organizers and activists and messengers to protect abortion access in Missouri of all places. Which let’s remember when Roe was overturned was the first state to come out with that trigger law and say, six weeks and you’re done. So it’s possible for people to look more creatively, let’s say, beyond the Federal government and say, here’s how I can get some good things done for our people.
CORI BUSH:
Yeah.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
What is the role that you think state governments are gonna have encountering some of these federal policies?
CORI BUSH:
Yeah.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
Like how are you thinking about that in Missouri and beyond?
CORI BUSH:
Yeah, I think it’s, you know, it’s just what you said. We’ve seen how people that are able to hit the ground and use grassroots organizing and really figuring out that I need urban as well as suburban, as well as rural. And we have to have a message for all of them. Uh, not a partisan message, but a human message. And I think that’s what really helped, because we’ve seen in Missouri we’ll support ballot initiatives that are progressive! But we will not as a state support progressive candidates. And part of that again, is it comes down to the education, it comes down to the messaging. And so, you know, I coined the term “Politivist” being a politician and the activist. And so I have a pac that I’m about to launch in the next day. And it is to help people who are organizers and activists who want to run for office to be able to do so.
CORI BUSH:
But we need those people, those organizers in those communities. We need to be able to give them the resources that they need to be able to touch their own community. When I think about the ERA, when I think about reparations, when I think about policing and how we have built a model across the country where organizers have worked with their local governments to change what policing looks like. When people were saying that it couldn’t happen, it’s actually been successful! Where now we have clinicians going out on calls that clinicians should go on instead of police and it’s saving lives and police are doing police work. So I think that’s the key, is organizers. We can’t push organizers to the side because they’re the ones that are touching the people every day.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
I love that because I’ve always said it’s both about protest and policy, right?
CORI BUSH:
Yes.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
That is a symbiotic relationship. They can’t function without one another if they’re going to be effective, right?
CORI BUSH:
Right.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
That you need the pressure from the outside, but you need things moving on the inside to actually effectuate long-term change. And so this Politivist pac, I’m so excited about it. ’cause as I was preparing for this, one of the questions I really wanted to ask you was like, do you still believe in the power of elected leadership? You’ve been a nurse, you’ve been a pastor, you’ve always been an organizer and an activist. You were not a career politician. You didn’t come from a political dynasty family. Right? But you saw elected leadership as an avenue for change. And even though your tenure in Congress was shorter than many of us would’ve preferred, what I hear you saying is that it’s still a valuable and necessary pathway.
CORI BUSH:
It absolutely is. Because I still get calls from people or people will send me messages saying, you are the reason why I was able to keep my home. Because of the eviction moratorium. I kept my job because of what you did. I think about organizations that we were able to get funded in St. Louis and all of the people who were helped by that. I think of one person in particular who, because I hired people who had the same heart and the same desire to save St. Louis as I did, or I do, this particular caseworker worked so hard. There was a person who came to our office for some help in one area, but she was having trouble helping that person. And so she, she kept digging deeper and deeper and deeper and found out this person was a veteran. She reached out to the VA. And anyway, long story short, this person had over $300,000 worth of cash benefits.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
Wow.
CORI BUSH:
That was waiting for them that they didn’t even know about. Completely changed their family situation. But it was because we hired those kind of people when people were being displaced in the community. When there was a flood in the community, we hit the ground, we put all boots, and we hit the ground and we were out there going door to door to help save people in our community.So it makes a difference. But also this, when I look at some of the people who are in these seats who are not doing much or who are barriers to actual change happening, that’s why I believe in it. Because sometimes when you see that new person come in, it’s like, what did they just bring to this seat that wasn’t happening before?
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
Right.
CORI BUSH:
I know I brought change to the seat that wasn’t happening before I got there. And it’s no, you know, knock at my predecessor. It’s just the truth! That, you know, I brought a lot of things to the table. And I’ll say this being out there during the Ferguson uprising for more than 400 days. I remember one day being out on the streets and just feeling like we were yelling at the buildings. We were standing in front of the Ferguson Police Department one day, and we were yelling, we were, we were constantly, we were chanting. And I was like “You know what? I feel like nobody’s listening!” You know? And we didn’t have a person in the Congress who was listening that would take what we were saying out there on the ground and do something with it. So you need both. And so I was able to go in and take that voice and put forward a bill the People’s Response Act. I was able to work with Lesley McSpaddenand, um, she has her bill, the Helping Families Heal Act. We were able to do those things.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
When you are out on the ground with Politivist Pac and recruiting those folks who have been deep in organizing to say, Hey, think about elected leadership. Think about political staff work when they raise their hands to run for office, what advice do you have for them about moving through a broken system?
CORI BUSH:
Quite a few things. Um, it <laugh>
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
<laugh> I’m sure.
CORI BUSH:
Um, one is: I think that it is absolutely valuable for anybody that wants to be in an elected position to have at least volunteered for a campaign for some type of substantial amount of time and work all the areas of the campaign, or at least as much as they could so that they can know exactly what they’re getting themselves into. Because I did that, I worked for campaigns for many, many years and, uh, I’ve worked every part of the campaign, before I ever decided to run for office. And that helped me a lot. Be tried and tested, because I know that as organizers, we, you know, we have this moxie, and we have this courage, we have this boldness, you know? Um, and oftentimes we are the ones who are gonna go show up at the protest and we’re gonna sleep on the floor in somebody’s basement because we don’t have the money to do all the things. So, you know, we’re, we’re, you know, we are gritty and you know, all of that. Yes. And we’re cool with that.
CORI BUSH:
So when this money comes to you, once you get elected, you know, have you been tried and tested yet to know that when the money comes, do you know that you would say no? Like, do you know, you would say no over and over and over because they’re gonna come at you 75 times in a year. Are you sure that you can say no? So those are just a couple of the, like, the low hanging fruit things.
CORI BUSH:
But then the other is knowing who you are, you have to really, really know who you are because you have, because that’s what you have to, you have to be that, and you have to sell that, because remember, you are the one that leads. And so you lead people who have to follow. In order for people to follow. They have to believe your message. And you oftentimes have to go it alone. So can you go it alone when all of your colleagues are saying one thing and you believe in your heart another, you know? So like, being tried and tested, I believe is absolutely true. So when you know who you are, you can fight unapologetically. And no matter what anybody says to you, you can stand firm.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
So you raise your hand for, for elected leadership, you do it for a time. And then you said that your loss radicalized you. What’s radical Cori feeling right now?
CORI BUSH:
Oh boy. <laugh> Um, trying to be, be all of the places really, um, all of all of the areas that I was fighting, whether I was fighting for something or against, I want to be able to do that now in a different way because I don’t have the strings of Congress. And, and, and I won’t say chains because I was never chained, but there were some fish, like some fishnet strings <laugh> you know, um,
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
You said some invisible twine that can hold you.
CORI BUSH:
Yeah. Yes. You know, it’s tough. Mm-hmm . You know. Um, and so now that that has been cut, I want to really be able to do the work for Palestine on a different level. I wanna do the work, um, to really affect change in, in Black maternal mortality and infant mortality, you know, in a whole different way. It’s just, I, I can do more. I have more time, I have more room. And I don’t have to worry about somebody feeling like, you know “Oh, well, if you say that, I’m not going to endorse you or I’m not going to, you know, support you financially.” I don’t have to worry about any of that. The only thing that I have to do is be me. Uh, and radical Cori is also understanding that girl get some sleep.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
<laugh> Amen!
CORI BUSH:
Look, look, I look, I, I told my staff, I told my comms director just yesterday, um, I hadn’t talked to her in a few days. And, um, ’cause you know, we’ve been outta Congress for a week now.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
Right.
CORI BUSH:
Um, and so I said, um, I said, guess what? I said, I slept eight hours, three nights in a row. She said, you’re kidding. She said, Cory, I don’t believe you. She said, Cory, you sleep four hours a night. And I was like, yeah, you know, I sleep, I, you know, I I I would be happy to get four hours. Years of getting four hours a night, um, sleep. And, um, so anyway, so yes, get some sleep. Do you know my grey coming in has slowed down over the last month?
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
Come on!
CORI BUSH:
I don’t even…And I wear braids, so you can see it.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
<laughs>
CORI BUSH:
I’m like “Look!” So that is radical Cori too. Look at my husband in his beautiful face. Spending time with my family. So being radical is also about understanding who your priorities, you know, like what they look like, what that setup should be.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
Well, that is exactly the kind of radical that I think we all should be. And so Cori, I am excited to continue to be in the fight alongside you, as is our entire community. I’m so sure. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for the years you put it in Congress and thank you in advance for the years that we know you’re gonna keep putting in.
CORI BUSH:
Well, thank you. And thank you for being there with me because we did this together <laugh>
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
Listen, we did! But you are a fearless leader and we’re gonna, we gonna keep on marching.
CORI BUSH:
That’s right.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
That’s, that’s the only choice we gonna keep on working.
CORI BUSH:
That’s right. And if I decide to go back, I will let you know.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
We are grateful for you. Love you, sis. Thank you so much. <laugh>.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
Look, y’all, the work is gonna look different, especially for us Black women and marginalized folks. We need to make sure that self-care, real rest and renewal is always on the agenda. But I already know there’s no quitting us. So we ain’t gonna start now.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM:
That’s it for today, but never, ever for tomorrow. Undistracted is a production of The Meteor and our friends at Wonder Media Network. Our producers are Vanessa Handy, Brittany Martinez, and Alyia Yates. Our editors are Grace Lynch and Maddy Foley. Thanks also to Natalia Ramirez and Sarah Culley. Our executive producers at The Meteor are Cindie Leive and myself and our executive producer at Wonder Media Network is Jenny Kaplan. You can follow me at @MissPackyetti on all social media and our incredible team @themeteor. Subscribe to Undistracted and don’t forget to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any place you get your favorite podcast. This week, thanks for listening. Thanks for being, especially this week, thanks for doing. I’m Brittany Packnett Cunningham. Let’s go get free, y’all.