Episode 3: Our Right to Party with Rep. Ruwa Romman and Maurice Mitchell
Please note: This transcript has been automatically generated.
Brittany:
Hey Ya’ll! Let’s talk about dense bean salads.
Yes, I’m serious. I know you’re like what girl? And if you’re not chronically online like me you may not know what I’m talking about, but our production team absolutely knows what I’m talking about because they were forced to hear me evangelize about the only thing I’ve ever successfully meal-prepped. I am a full-fledged dense bean salad convert.
OK so, alright what am I talking about? Basically if you search “Dense Bean Salad Girl” on Tik Tok, two things will pop up: The original DBS girl herself, Tik Toker Violet Witchel, who goes by Violet Cooks on the clock app and you’ll also find videos of other DBS converts like myself. Yes we belong to the DBS church. We’ll be extolling the simple life pleasures of white beans, and garbanzos and you know a nice seasonal mix of meats and veggies soaking up easy homemade dressings in your fridge all week.
NO-this is not an ad. I don’t think y’all get it–my life’s talent is needing domestic routines and never sticking to them. Ya’ll, I can strategize a messaging and policy campaign in my sleep. I cannot, however comma, strategize a grocery list or conquer my time blindness well enough to make a salad that lasts all week.
But them dense ass fibrous salads? I’m on week 3 and I’m in love.
Anyway, if all Blue Ivy’s internet ever did for me was bring me Dense Bean Salad Girl, I’d die happy. But instead, we’re stuck with Elon Musk’s internet…and that’s a much darker place.
Like a whole lot of you, My Twitter account (and no–I will never call it anything else) is currently locked and unused. I’m not giving that man my best ideas for free and I’m definitely not giving his now completely unchecked merry band of racists, xenophobes and weirdos the pleasure of my Black ass company. He can break the internet on his own time.
Because that’s exactly what he’s doing. Breaking the internet. it wasn’t always like this: The most used hashtag in the first 10 years of Twitter was #Ferguson. People around the world were using the platform intentionally not just to tweet Scandal memes, although it was great for that, but to nurture uprising. But Elon… and the rest of a bad-built billionaire class whose wealth depends on driving us into chaos, you see they knew that coming in–and so they used their dollars to break our weapon, and create their own.
Now, I head to that place like a werewolf, no a vampire afraid of the sun, peeking through my eyes just to see what’s happening outside, holding up my arms trying to block the sun so that the heat of the day’s like newest xenophobic disinfo won’t burn me to a doom-scrolling crisp.
You know what though, a lot of those days, I don’t even think the worst of it is the rampant -isms that now get blue-checked and rage farmed to the top of our feeds. So many days the worst of it is how the platform and the entire web has been weaponized to drive wedges between us–between the coalitions that have helped changed the world. My budding activist brain needed to find Mariam Kaba on twitter. The money that millions of people raised and the information that people across continents shared with each other on that app during COVID, that helped save lives. We’re talking the Arab Spring, the Ferguson uprising, protests in Baltimore and New York City. And the thing that built all that goodness is now broken in many ways beyond repair. Black and Palestinian communities, as but one example, have found themselves at odds on the timeline in ways we’re historically not at odds in the streets. And I wanna be clear, some of the reflections that we’ve heard in this conversation have absolutely been worthwhile and important multiple perspectives, but we still have to ask ourselves–are these all actually arguments we started? Are they even real? Or is someone taking great pleasure in making sure that one of the most powerful coalitions that we’ve seen over the past several decades does not survive the next era? These are the questions.
Because our ability to build the world we want will depend on how healthy our intersectional coalitions remain after hard times–especially while we’re in the midst of preparing for potentially harder ones. There’s lot to love about what we find online, but the internet simply can not be the death of our partnerships and our purpose.
It’s just something to think about…next time you’re mixing your garbanzo beans.
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Brittany:
On today’s show…I had the distinct pleasure of speaking with Georgia State Rep. Ruwa Romman and Maurice Mitchell, the National Director of the Working Families Party.
Rep. Ruwa:
And even at the DNC I offered a gift. And just because that gift was rejected doesn’t change the work that I’m doing. I’m not doing what I am doing so that a bunch of people will like me. I’m doing the work that I’m doing to shift policy and perspective towards a more just path forward.
But first…the news.
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Brittany
Welcome back to UNtrending News.
I would try to make them see that this is a murder on their behalf and this is wrong,
That’s Marcellus Williams, Jr. On Tuesday, his father, 55-year-old Marcellus Williams was executed in my home state of Missouri.
In 2001, Marcellus Williams Sr. was convicted of murdering Felicia Gayle, who was found stabbed to death in her home. But after new DNA evidence raised questions about the case, the prosecutors who convicted Marcellus wanted the case overturned. The prosecutors. And yet – the Missouri Supreme Court and its governor refused to halt the execution.
To say that I am absolutely outraged and utterly aggrieved is an extreme understatement. But I also bring up this case because it is sadly representative of our criminal legal system.
First: accuracy. Williams was executed despite the fact that the prosecutors raised doubts about their own case. Even the victims family had asked for this execution to be stayed.
Secondly – and ya’ll already know this – Black people are disproportionately represented in jails, prisons, and yes, on death row. 34% of people executed in the U.S. have been Black. And that’s despite us making up just 14% of the U.S. population.
I don’t believe, either by intentional starvation, an officers gun, or lethal injection, that the government has the right to take life. And it should terrify us that the government thinks it can and that it should, especially when there are doubts about a person’s guilt.
Simply put: Marcellus Williams should be alive. meeting pain and death with more pain and more death – I don’t know what kind of justice that is?
And…
It’s Banned Books Week for schools and libraries nationwide. In recent years, book banning has once again become a hot topic in the United States with more than 10,000 books banned in public schools between 2023 and 2024 alone.
Now y’all know this is personal for me. As an educator, I care deeply about students having access to the information they want and that affirms them. I guarantee you every single teacher worth their salt wants to empower young people, not control them.
A new report from PEN America lays out how book bans are concentrated in just a few states–but the response here can’t be “oh, just don’t move to Oklahoma.” There are plenty of queer, Black and immigrant children who are already in Oklahoma, who can’t leave and deserve more than to see their stories demonized–and guess what– the PRIVILEGED kids sitting next to them in class, yeah those kids need those stories, too. Because if we show kids some stories are worth erasing, then we teach them that some people are worth disposing–and that ain’t the damn country I’m trying to live in.
Finally, in some better news…
Ya’ll can we give it up for the goat that is A’ja Wilson! Now it’s no secret that I love the WNBA and there was no question that this powerhouse center was gonna get the MVP nomination again. But to receive the MVP title UNANIMOUSLY, as she did on Sunday night. That’s legend, okay, that’s goat status. That’s something not to be trifled or played with. And as we’re getting into these playoffs, I am so hype to watch A’ja with the Las Vegas Aces…even though I am a Washington Mystics fan, shout out to the season ticket holders. I just love good basketball. And it’s been good to see A’ja getting her flowers. women’s sports getting the attention and fandom they deserve. Because just like the t-shirt says, everybody watches women’s sports. Even if ya’ll don’t wanna talk about it.
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We’ll be right back to the main event after this quick break.
AD BREAK
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Brittany:
Today, I’m speaking with two incredible people and if you don’t them, you need to get to know them. Maurice Mitchell is the National Director of the Working Families Party.
Now the Working Families Party is building strong legitimate sustainables third party infrastructure. I believe that multi-party systems can make democracy strong. I don’t however believe in people popping up every four years at the top of the ticket to cause distraction and chaos and not taking the time to actually build in between those four years by running in local offices. Especially when those people have the audacity to call the folks doing the actual work “sell-outs”.
Which is also why I wanted to talk to Georgia State Representative Ruwa Romman who you might have heard about recently, as her name was raised to speak at the Democratic National Convention in Chicago. The DNC ultimately denied the request, but Rep. Ruwa has not given up on advocating for Palestinian liberation. She is a member of the Georgia House of Representatives for the 97th district, was the first Muslim woman ever elected to the Georgia State House, and the first Palestinian elected anywhere in the state.
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Brittany:
I cannot tell you how thrilled I am to have both of you in this conversation, Maurice, we keep playing phone tag, but we’ve known each other for years. Rep Ruwa, we just met a couple of weeks ago in Chicago. Um, but it’s been lots of close communication and support ever since. And you both just occupy, I think, a really fascinating and also very necessary place in progressive politics. So let’s just start off by talking about your work. Maurice, tell us about the Working Families Party. I am a member, my beloved WFP. And how you got involved?
Maurice:
I don’t wanna spend all this time on biography but I’m a long time organizer. Yes. Right. And I, I’ve been organizing since I was a young person and every step of my organizing journey, I feel like I, I realize the limitations as well as the power of a particular tactic. Mm. So I was a student organizer, and that’s where I first learned about direct action because I was organizing protest against police brutality because a classmate of mine was, was killed at Howard University. And I, I learned how powerful that was because we got folks from the Department of Justice to come to our school because we shut down the Department of Justice. But then I also saw the limitations because, you know, ultimately they didn’t open a case on the police department. Right. And then I did grassroots organizing in the field in New York and Long Island and a lot of small Black communities for years.
Maurice:
And I learned the power of that sort of slow, deep hyper-local organizing work. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And then I also saw the limitations. And then that’s how I got involved in electoral organizing. ’cause I was like, oh, we need to switch out the, the elected officials. Right. And then I actually saw how we could flip, um, a state legislature from red to blue. And I was like, okay, here we go. Flipping from red to blue. But then once the Democrats got in power, I saw how organized capital and lobbyists have so much power over our electoral system in general. Mm. Republicans or Democrats, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And then where I met you, I met you a decade ago in Ferguson. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And so, on the ground in Ferguson, I wa I was transformed by what the people of St. Louis and Ferguson did, and
Brittany:
We all were.
Maurice:
I I, and, and I got involved and I saw how we catalyzed the Movement for Black Lives to be an international movement, how it was operating at the level of the entire society.
Maurice:
Mm-Hmm. Forming the same questions and, and social movements are able to surface contradictions at the, at the scale of an entire society. Mm-Hmm. So everybody was like, yo, from the ground working class Black folks are posing these questions about the decades long generations, long, hundreds of years long Black suffering. But we didn’t necessarily have the, the ability to answer those questions. Mm. And so, who answered the question, taser international. Right. With body cameras. Right. And so that, actually, that, and Donald Trump’s election brought me to the Working Families Party because I wanted to figure out how to nest all of those tactics into one strategy. And I realized that a, a political party is a shared political commitment that a lot of different people could share, like local elected officials like, like Rep Romman, as well as activists, as well as people in the media like yourself, could all share a shared political North Star and could share different tactics together. And that’s what brought me to the Working Families Party.
Brittany:
Whew. This conversation already fire. Okay. So <laugh> representative Ruwa, you call yourself a Southern Arab, which I like <laugh> because I mean, I love it because you’re, you’re reclaiming and claiming space that people think doesn’t exist. <laugh> and people like you don’t exist. What prompted you to get involved in politics? Can you, can you talk to us about this life, uh, as a Georgia State representative and what you’re proud of accomplishing?
Rep. Ruwa:
Yeah. I mean, um, my journey really, uh, started when I was in high school. I was doing a lot of sort of interfaith civic type engagement. But it wasn’t until college, um, and actually two years after Sandy Hook. Mm. It was 2014 at that point, you know, I’d been really into politics. I was watching the Arab Spring unfold. I had watched what it was going on in Ferguson, and so much was swirling around me as a college kid. And the Michelle Nunn Jason Carter campaigns had kind of, you know, joined forces and they were recruiting across the state, including on my campus to come volunteer. And I tell people I really fell in love from the first door knock. I started to believe that we can change the state of door at a time.
Rep. Ruwa:
Because it’s those deep, consistent conversations that go a really long way and cut through so much of the noise that we all experience as people. But I looked around the room and there weren’t people that looked like me, whether it’s Muslim or Arab, or even Black or brown. Like there were barely folks that looked like us even in those campaign offices. And I, I really had believed that if we just, uh, expanded the electorate, it would look very different. Um, and I was lucky ’cause this was around the time that everyone else was having that conversation, whether it, it was Stacey Abrams, whether it was local Muslim organizers, like my friend Aisha Yaqoob, who started the Georgia Muslim Voter Project. And I found myself having places to plug in to like use that energy in a very, very productive way. Um, the long story short of it is I’ve been doing it for over 10 years, whether that was teaching people when, where, and how to vote in a state that, um, is keen on what I say, surgically suppressing our vote.
Brittany:
Hello.
Rep. Ruwa:
Um, especially in a state where we flipped it in 2020 by an average of a hundred votes per county. And that was just my life passion.
Brittany:
You know, there are so many different, and as the three of us discuss all the time, intentionally connected movements happening on the left in particular, and you all are exactly who I wanted to talk about how we like, honor the raw emotions that we all have around the issues we carry and how we marry that, not balance it, but marry it with strategy and impact and effectiveness is really what both of you have been talking about. Um, we have so much to be concerned about these days. Right. I mean, the climate crisis, racial liberation, Palestine, Sudan, the Congo, economic Justice. Maurice, build our understanding in your idea that quote, protest is essential, but the act of civil disobedience is a tactic that needs to be nested into a long-term strategy.
Maurice:
Oh, oh, absolutely. So I’m, I’m big on, on strategy, right? And I want to explain what I, I mean by strategy. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, right? So let’s use the analogy of a map or a journey that we’re going on, right? So you placing yourself on point A and deciding where point B is. That essentially, that conversation you’re having, that’s an ideological conversation. Mm. Where we agree on what point A is and what point B is. Right. But there’s a lot of different ways to get from point A to point B, right? Yep. You could take the trails, you could take the highway, you could, um, you know, take tollways. You actually have to decide how to get from point A to point B, right? But then once you decide how to get to point from point A to point B, you then need to decide which vehicle you’re going to take.
Maurice:
You could take public transportation, you could take a sports car, you know, and, and those, those decisions have real implications. If you take public transportation, you could take more people, right? If you take a sports car, you get there really quick. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But you could take few people, right? You kind of, you have to decide. So all of these are critical decisions that you have to make, right? And so what I just described is a strategic conversation, right? These are fundamental decisions we have to make. I could agree with you on where we are and where we need to go, but have deep disagreements on how to get there, right?
Maurice:
Yeah. And we could actually share an ideology and disagree on a fundamental strategy. Yeah. Right? And we could share a strategic orientation, but have disagreements on the tactics, right? Yeah. But one of the things that I think is so helpful is, is when you develop a strategy, because conflict and disagreement is actually human. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, it allows for those disagreements to be productive. One way I describe strategy is like it’s a container for productive disagreement. Mm. Right? And then we know that when we’re traveling with, with, with travel with your family, we agree on point A and point B, we agree on, on how we’re gonna get there. We agree on the vehicle. There’s plenty to argue about <laugh> on the way there, <laugh>, right? It’s on the way there.
Maurice:
It’s our job to argue about that stuff. Yeah. Right? And so strategy allows you to agree on all those things. So you could argue about that stuff, right? And so that to me is, is what our movements need more of. We need more of strategy, otherwise we’re just arguing on tactics. And you can’t tell why one tactic is better than another outside of a strategy. Why is a march better than a social media campaign? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, why is running for office better than direct action? Right? I don’t, I can’t tell you. Yeah. If it’s not nested in a strategy, if it’s not nested in a shared agreement of the point A, the point B, the shared agreement on the vehicle, all those things, and the right wing has developed a strategic muscle Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And over time, and there’s a lot of reasons for it. It’s not because they’re better and we’re worse or whatever. There’s a lot of structural and historical reasons for it. They’ve developed a lot of infrastructure. What the left is hungry for is organization and a plan, a strategic plan. And, and that’s why I invest so much time in party building, specifically because party building provides organization and a plan.
Brittany:
Yeah. It takes time, it takes intentionality. It takes a willingness to go through the hard, dark, messy, complicated spots, and not just skip over them, but actually work through them. Um, which is really unsexy to most people. <laugh>, it’s unpopular, it’s unsexy. People wanna be there for the march, and then they’re like, okay, I am out. Right. And Rep Ruwa, I know you know this better than most because not only have you been working in this intentionally strategic space, you then decided to become an elected official. Right. Which comes with its own limitations, boundaries, new requirements, even just in the way you spend your time. So I’m curious how that paradigm influences how you do what you do.
Rep. Ruwa:
It’s funny because one thing that it has sort of built in me off of, um, what Mo was saying was the fact that I’m just even more determined to teach people how to do this work. I mean, if you look at my inbox right now, right wing folks are always emailing me just, you know, consistently. And I would love for us to learn that consistency. I would love for us to hone that muscle. And I wanna be clear, yes, there are people who are working like three jobs can barely make ends meet, et cetera. I’m not, I’m not talking about those people carrying that burden. But for the rest of us who have time to scroll on social media and, you know, be righteously upset about something, the reality is that things are the way they are until they aren’t. That’s right. But that tipping point happens after just getting through the slog of the consistent pressure and movement.
Rep. Ruwa:
And, you know, obviously as an elected official, I think a lot about, you know, what has changed about me. It, it’s weird. It’s made me a lot more optimistic about being able to change things because I, I literally see the levers and buttons with my own eyes and how they move and how they, they change people. Yeah. Simultaneously, you know, being aware of the systems that exist against us, it’s made me even more determined to change those systems and work with people to teach them how to change those systems. And you know, the thing that really stands out to me, even, even generally here, is that particularly down ballot, we are missing out on so many opportunities to make our voices heard. People don’t really show up down ballot. And for example, our state board race was determined by 2% of voters in a runoff.
Rep. Ruwa:
It was wild. And can you imagine if progressives had turned out for that one, um, more than the conservatives that did, instead of having a MAGA Republican on our school board right now, it would be a really incredible progressive person who has 20 years of teaching experience and really cares about the kids. And so for me, like it’s, I hate to be like, vote harder, but that’s not the point. The point is that, you know, what I tell people is that you need to be able to mobilize in the streets, and you need somebody sympathetic on the inside to turn it into bills and laws.
Brittany:
Yeah. It’s the both and.
Rep. Ruwa:
And the sooner we can figure that out and understand that, and figure out the strategy, so we can set boundaries and like, understand, okay, I’ve got my lane. You’ve got your lane. As long as I don’t do this, then you’re not gonna like come at me. I, I, I agree. We are hungry for that.
Brittany:
Those of us who intentionally choose strategy, who choose to lean in publicly and privately to the both and, and not the either or, uh, that’s not always welcome. Right? <laugh> that comes with play. Like we’re talking about it like it’s happy, happy, joy, joy. But that comes with a lot of criticism, right? I mean, Representative, you just very publicly responded to a presidential candidate who had the unmitigated gall to come up out her mouth and call you a sellout. And you responded so much more eloquently than I would have. ’cause I really just wanted to like, pull up my camera and say, look here, white lady telling a Palestinian lady what to do about what’s happening to her own people who only ever shows up every four years. And we still don’t have an accounting for some money that you raised quite a few years ago about a recount. I got, like go off <laugh>, but I think we have other things to discuss. Right. But you were, you were cool, calm and collected, and you used it as another opportunity <laugh> to, as a learning opportunity for the people, right. Whether or not she hears it. Um, how do you clarify your intentions and your actions with people in the wake of these really, really personal attacks that come from a presidential candidate all the way to like Instagram comments?
Rep. Ruwa:
So shout out to Aleed who I got a chance to spend a lot of time with in Chicago. And for the record, I was not even supposed to be at the DNC, I didn’t have credentials, um, <laugh>. Which is a whole other story.
Brittany:
That doesn’t mean you weren’t supposed to be there. That’s not what that means.
Rep. Ruwa:
Just wild. But to your, to your point more broadly, I think the world that I come from, um, prevents me from ignoring the systemic disenfranchisement. It prevents me from ignoring, you know, the legitimate criticism that comes our way, even if it comes from the worst people. And for me personally, you know, I have to spend a lot of time just reminding myself that like I’m representing something to people. It’s not about me as Ruwa, it’s about me as a state representative that most people don’t know me. They don’t know anything about my, who I am personally. Um, therapy is really great. I highly recommend maintaining your like mental health during this time and taking care of yourself doesn’t necessarily have to center just you, but it does come with the fact that you need to be okay. But even to your point, like the example that you just shared, I believe in a certain strategy, I believe in a certain tactic, and I’m doing it to the best of my ability.
Rep. Ruwa:
And even at the DNC I offered a gift. And just because that gift was rejected doesn’t change the work that I’m doing. I’m not doing what I am doing so that a bunch of people will like me. I’m doing the work that I’m doing to shift policy and perspective towards a more just path forward. And I think people forget that things used to be so much worse. That doesn’t mean that we’re in a good place. It just simply means that what we’ve been doing is working. And I can’t even imagine how different things would be if we could, you know, become even more disciplined. Hone our strategy, hone our tactic.
Brittany:
Well, I’m so glad that you are so forward thinking because baby, my earrings was coming off when I saw it <laugh>, uh, which is unhelpful, right? This is not productive disagreement. And I was like, let me, let me step back. She’s got plenty of words to say for this, but you know, Maurice, you tow a very thin line. Right? Especially as someone who is building power through a third party. Right? My opinions about one particular candidate aside, I do believe that multi-party systems strengthen societies. But you tow this thin line because you run an alternative party and support and run democratic candidates. And then you, you’re doing all of that while being rooted in clarity around labor justice. Right? Um, so your members endorsed Elizabeth Warren in 2020, endorsed, uh, Kamala Harris this time around. How do you navigate through all of the conflict that can arise as you push toward WFP’s long-term goals?
Maurice:
Well, carefully, right. <laugh> <laugh>. So, yeah. Um, so, so we have a, we have a posture, we have a block and build posture, right? And so we seek to, in the immediate right block all of the things that we all know are harmful to our people, right? Like most people in the United States are not for white Christian nationalism. In fact, there’s a really big hello broad Cheney to Chomsky, pro-democracy coalition that is, that is seeking to defeat Trumpism and Trump. Yeah. Right? And so we’re involved in that project as well. And we disagree on so many important things.
Brittany:
Hello? ’cause we ain’t agreeing with Cheney.
Maurice:
Yeah. Exactly. Like the only thing, the only thing I agree, I agree with anybody in the Cheney family around is the fact that that Donald Trump is a, is a threat to our democracy. Okay? So we’re in a broad, popular front with all those people. Cool. So blocking is not enough. Right. It’s, it’s insufficient to the case. We also have to build, and we believe that in order for us, our democracy, for us to actually build a viable democracy and look around it, I think the, the evidence is clear. We need to build a multiracial multiparty democracy in this country. Right. And we understand that it’s not gonna happen in a week. It’s not gonna happen in a month. It’s not even gonna happen in a year. Yeah. And so we have a, a, a decade long build plan to do it the right way, build a third party based on what we know about our system of government.
Maurice:
It’s federalized. You have to do it state by state. And in the states you have to do it county by county, and you have to have actual people who are willing to do the hard organizing in order to make it happen. Right. And so we’re doing that and we’ve demonstrated that it’s actually possible. Absolutely. And we’re, we’re providing the fact points. One way of understanding a, a party is parties organize winning, right? Mm-Hmm. And so we take a path to victory very seriously. And we think showing up in 2024 and saying, look, we are committed to building a third party in the United States. And we, because of the stakes, have chosen not to surface our own candidate at the top of the ticket. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, because we understand there’s, there’s no viable path for us, and we’re choosing to cross endorse the candidate of another party, a candidate that we deeply disagree with on fundamental things.
Maurice:
Right. We believe that that gives credibility to the fact that this is an existential binary choice. Hmm. And it gives credibility for folks who also agree. Like we agree that the system as it is, is problematic and fundamentally flawed that the Republican party might be white Christian nationalist. But the Democratic Party unfortunately is captured by capital, is captured way too much by, by corporations and lobbyists. And like we agree with that analysis, we agree with the fact that structurally our democracy is fundamentally flawed. And we also understand that there is a disconnect between that analysis and our ability to, in the immediate change it. Right. And so, yeah.
Brittany:
Our current reality,
Maurice:
you need to have your feet firmly planted in the world as it is. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and your eyes need to be able to look at a horizon towards a world as you want it to be. Yeah. If you are curious about building a third party, we’re practicing it right now. It takes a lot of work and we’re not gonna win it in weeks or months. And anybody telling you that either misunderstands the terrain or is lying to you.
Brittany:
Yeah. And both are dangerous. I mean, we all have a lot of friends and family people we love and respect on the left who are interested in voting for a third party this election in this current reality. And you know, Maurice, you responded to some of that, but Rep Ruwa, like, what do you say to those folks that you love who have legitimate concerns, but still, you know, you want them to at least be thinking of our current reality?
Rep. Ruwa:
I mean, truly, I always point to Working Families Party and I always tell them I’m a working families party member. I’m happy to join any party that is seriously, you know, obviously values align with me and is building infrastructure in my district and in my county. I think that really matters. And I’m happy to lend whatever this platform that I have towards that. Cause I’m not actually anti sort of third party. What I am specifically is I’m anti taking advantage of people’s despair. That is the best way that I can explain it. I don’t want us to take advantage of people who are feeling disenfranchised, feeling desperate, take their money towards a goal that has no strategic foresight. And on top of that, give them false hope. My goal is to get to a point where we are so collectively powerful people have no choice but to listen to us.
Maurice:
Yes. A lot of folks who disagree with my strategy, not all of them, but a lot of them center the Democratic Party and Kamala Harris and sort of a lot of their, their tactics about teaching them a lesson. Mm. Right. My tactics tend to center our movement and building our movement’s power. So I don’t, I don’t trust Kamala Harris. I don’t, I don’t trust the Democratic party to do anything other than what they will do. I trust our movements and I have a lot of faith in our people. And I’m willing to do the work to convince our people that there is a organizing strategy independent of these forces that’s worth engaging in.
Rep. Ruwa:
You know, I say that community building and power building, have different rules, but they intersect in the sense of, it depends on, uh, how our communities talk to each other. Work together, mobilize together determines how much power we have. Yeah. And I just want us to stop leaving it on the table. Like there really is so much unsexy consistent work you can do that can be and is world changing.
Brittany:
That’s right. Ruwa, as we talk about party politics, earlier you said technically you weren’t supposed to be at, uh, the DNC Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And as a fellow woman of faith, I would disagree. You were absolutely where you were supposed to be, even though one of the ultimate goals was not, uh, reached. And that is of course, you speaking from the DNC convention stage at the United Center, not just in front of that room full of people, but in front of the American people. Um, you’ve even said publicly that that speech was sanitized, right? For the sake of hopeful progress in a diverse space in what Mauricea has already called a very broad coalition. Um, but one of the things you said in this speech, you said quote, “but in this pain, I’ve also witnessed something profound, a beautiful multi-faith multiracial and multi-generational coalition rising from despair within our Democratic party”. I’m curious, especially as that speech was not delivered in the end, do you still see and feel this coalition rising? And what do you think that means in this moment?
Rep. Ruwa:
Oh yeah. I mean, look, um, my expectations for the DNC have never been high. The reality is that the DNC is just one of thousands of democratic institutions around the country. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, it’s also one of the last to change. And our coalition grew independent and frankly, in spite of the party, because the reality is, and as we saw on a national stage, that sort of systemic racism still exists at the top of the party. I truly believe that part of the reason that we are seeing what we are seeing is because Palestinians are not seen as people by a lot of people in, in positions of power. That’s just the reality. And this was a moment that could go one of two ways. Either we show symbolically there’s room for us in the party, or it continues to prove to us there’s still a lot of work to do to get the party where we need it to be, to fully earn the kind of support that they would need from voters like us.
Rep. Ruwa:
Because I wanna be clear, if it was just Palestinians, if it was just Muslims, frankly, even in swing states, it would not be enough. The reason I’m so personally concerned about the upcoming November elections, that the excitement is real. We have a serious fighting chance. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But there’s enough of us, Palestinians, Muslims, Arabs, allies, you name it, in these key swing states who really care about this. And if we lose them, I don’t know how we can win. Particularly because what set me, frankly, like the reason I had lost my mind isn’t because the DNC said No, we were there to push the DNC to support our efforts to stop the bombing of people that we love. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, that is the ultimate goal. The rest of it was just part of the like, you know, vibe of the night and, and part of the like, you know, what the symbolism and all of that.
Rep. Ruwa:
But the reality of the situation is that, um, it is in spite of that, it is in spite of everything that happened. And now it just reminds us, hey, we have a whole coalition backing us. That coalition, by the way, only 6% of uncommitted voters were Arab and Muslim. Even in places like Michigan, that coalition is one that’s never existed before. That coalition, again, is in spite of party. And it’s a coalition that centers justice. It’s an anti-war coalition. I don’t, in the 30 years that I’ve lived in this country, or 20 something years I’ve lived in this country, I’ve never seen this for Palestinians in my life. And so why would I give up on that? Why would I abandon a vehicle where there are more elected officials in that vehicle on its own, that support what I support compared to any other party that says that they’re gonna switch things up and all their candidates forget, elected, all their candidates combined don’t even meet a 10th of what we have right now. Um, and so that’s my goal. My, my hope and my goal is that like people see that coalition, lean into it, nurture it. One thing I really care about is protecting that coalition come November.
Brittany:
What’s the long game for that coalition if Trump wins? And similarly, what’s the long game if Harris wins?
Maurice:
So the, the reason why I think the election is so important is that the terrain, like remember I use that map analogy. Right. The actual terrain that will travel from point A to point B looks very different from Trump and Harris. And not in like a theoretical way in very practical ways. Yeah. Like for example, Trump has said specifically that he wants to use his office in order to to jail, en masse to jail protestors. That’s right. Right. And activist.
Brittany:
And deport, deport us, yeah.
Maurice:
And, and deport protestors and activists. And I know some people might be thinking like, well, Democrats sometimes in their cities could, could be really repressive. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. That’s, that’s true. But we actually, we deserve to tell our people the truth and to tell our people the, the difference between some of the really deplorable, uh, repression that’s taken place sometimes under Democrats in some cities. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> especially, we saw it around Palestine. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and an authoritarian federal government using the US military and using the full force of the federal government in order to, in an authoritarian manner, jail, repress, violently attack, um, and deport our, our protestors. So then, alright, well, protest is one of our tactics when we’re thinking about the terrain of struggle and how we get from point A to point B, we’re gonna have to figure out how we deploy protests when it might mean we’ll be disappeared.
Maurice:
Mm. Right. Which is something that’s common for a lot of protesters around the, around the world. But it isn’t common in the United States. And it would be common in the United States if we trust what comes out of the mouth of Donald Trump, what’s written in, in Project 2025, what everybody around him is saying, that’s just one policy, but there’s many, many more. Right. And so the world under Trump and us organizing under Trump, I think will be, um, there’ll be more cost. They’ll come after our leaders. Will we continue to fight? Will we continue to resist? Absolutely. Yeah. Because resistance is as human as, as breathing. And we will, and we’ll come up with strategies in order, in order to overcome them. And I put the decade that I was looking at in order to build WFP to the point where we could aggregate that power to actually, you know, vie for, for, you know, power at the top of the ticket.
Maurice:
man, that decade, you can multiply that by three or four. Right? And so it’s about space to maneuver and time. Let’s talk about Harris, right? Because we have our work cut out for us under Harris, because the Democratic party, big tent, when I was at the DNC I saw the uncommitted was there. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> Ruwa was there. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. I saw a lot of folks that I know activists were there, but also lobbyists were there, organized capital were there. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> people in, in corporate suites were there. Do you think that perhaps they plan on, on using that governing moment that in order to pursue their agenda? Absolutely. So it’s gonna be a, a give and take and a tug of war. And we’re gonna have to organize like we’ve never done before. And we need to learn the lesson of Obama, right. Because when, when Obama was president there, he built an electoral movement and then that electoral movement basically atrophied.
Maurice:
And so we need to learn our lesson and make sure that there’s an independent progressive grassroots movement ready day one to push Kamala Harrison and to challenge Kamala Harris. And there’s gonna be a lot of folks saying like, whoa, well she’s a Black woman, you know, let her cook. And look, if you really believe in that Black woman who has reached the highest level Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> of politics, then you should believe in her ability to listen.
Brittany:
Absolutely.
Maurice:
Her ability to hold critique, her ability to sustain pushback. You should believe that she’s, she, she’s, she has the ability to do those things. And it’s actually our job in a democracy, not just the vote, but to do all those things 365 days a a year. So life under Harris is no cakewalk and we’re gonna be disappointed.
Maurice:
We’re gonna be, I can’t believe she did that because it’s not about her, the person, it’s about the correlation of forces. And look, white supremacy still exists, patriarchy still exists, capitalism still exists. And those forces and, and the way that people play those forces puts everybody in different situations, including the president. And so, so what we need to do is focus on our power and understanding the, the various forces and how they operate. And, and that’s true under Trump. That’s true under Harris, but I would much prefer much it under Harris. Like it’s not even a question. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, it’s our job to actually build the conditions, to transform the power relationships that force the democratic party to show up in that way. What I’m here to tell you is that nobody could save us but us. And there’s no easy fix.
Rep. Ruwa:
To your point of how like we could get to where we want in 10 years or we get to where we want in 30 years. And I remind people, like, look at somebody like me. I’m a Palestinian, I have every right to do whatever I want this election cycle. And I’m still desperate to keep Trump out of office. That should tell you that because of my experiences and because of the work that I wanna do, I don’t wanna even think about a Trump presidency next year because to be quite honest, as a state Rep, I’m gonna be so deep on defense, I’m not gonna have time to think about anything else. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> because my constituents are gonna be banging on my door asking for help for whatever it is that’s going on in that moment. And when I say I’m, I’m committed to protecting our coalition. I mean, in order to do that, we have to stop Trump. Because our coalition is gonna go from being on the offensive on some issues to ending up on the defensive on everything. When we talk about the terrain and like having an easier terrain. That’s what we’re talking about. We’re talking about the fact that we all have 24 hours in a day. Some of our 24 hours look very different than others. Right? Yeah. But if, if I only have capacity to work on three issues and one candidate is bad on 12 and the other candidate is bad on three, I’m gonna pick the candidate’s bad on three. Especially to you guys’ point, we have two options come November. It is bigger than I am.
Brittany:
Absolutely. Before I let both of you go, give me one sentence of advice. Maurice, we’ll go to you first for our community, our undistracted family, on how we remain undistracted. Especially right now.
Maurice:
Well, okay. I mean, I could say so much <laugh>, but what I’ll, what I will, I’ll like bursting. But what I’ll say in <laugh>, what I’ll say in one sentence, uh, I think one way to say undistracted is, and it’s been my experience at least that um, when confronted with binaries, there’s, I’ve never met a binary choice that when I’ve given myself a beat to think about it, I’ve learned that it actually doesn’t reflect my reality. Hmm. Right? So try to or be curious about what the both and solution might be. Hmm. Um, when confronted with the binary choice. How do we align with our convictions while making the practical decisions day after day that actually lead to the long term justice, right? Yes. That’s the both intention that we’re in in this moment.
Brittany:
We’re gonna hold the radical and the pragmatic, especially when we know radical just means getting to the root. Yeah. Ruwa, close us out.
Rep. Ruwa:
You know, for me, I tell people this all the time. You have to hope and believe in a better future because if you don’t, your opposition has already won. The only way that we can continue to do this work is if we both hope for and believe yeah. That a better tomorrow is possible. And if sometimes hope and belief is too difficult, you gotta lean into some spite and just remember that you never wanna give somebody the satisfaction of you giving up.
Brittany:
There it is. We never want to give people the satisfaction of giving up and we’re never going to give up on that both and. I’m deeply grateful that both of you exist in the world, that you do so much for all of us and that you spent a little time with us here at Undistracted. Thanks y’all!
Rep. Ruwa:
Thank you.
Maurice:
It was so good to be here.
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Brittany:
Whew that was it ya’ll. Either/or thinking is, in many ways, the most unhelpful of all the elements of white dominant culture. As Ruwa and Maurice remind us, it is in the both/and that we birth freedom. And as hard, messy and sticky as it may be, here’s to giving ourselves what we are truly, truly owed.
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